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From Benoit Chesneau <>
Subject Re: [REQUES] Review proposed bylaws (Was: Re: [DISCUSS] Project bylaws)
Date Thu, 05 Jun 2014 09:53:21 GMT
just for the sake sanity, forgetting the "philosophical" approach which is
not totally the point here. I think i would be for having the following
order in handling communities interactions:

CoC > By laws

Where I would relegate the "by laws" as a contributing guide document. I am
actually -0 on the current form.

The content of the current document is ok for me though I would remove the
notion of empathy and simply link to the coc and diversity guidelines
removing any attempts in the future for people to define who is more
empathic than the other. I would also add a part to manage discussions by
themselves and define how/when they should close in a graceful manner. (I
proposed that in an early mail).


- benoit

On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 11:11 AM, Benoit Chesneau <>

> On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Benoit Chesneau <>
> wrote:
>> On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 8:17 AM, Joan Touzet <> wrote:
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Alexander Shorin" <>
>>> > Well, mostly all CoC points could be replaced by single sentence: "Be
>>> polite.":
>>> Being polite is insufficiently rich to describe what we expect from
>>> people. I also explained why I didn't use polite in a previous thread
>>> as well (or it might have been IRC, I forget now.)
>>> Proof by counterexample: I have been involved in a private gaming
>>> community for a long time where the only rule was "be polite" / "don't
>>> be an asshole". Recently it has been made painfully clear that, to some
>>> people, being polite means it's OK to be sexist, racist, disparage
>>> people who don't agree with you, villainize foreigners, and worse that
>>> I won't bring to bear on this list.
>>> This is even worse when people are "polite" on a mailing list but still
>>> harbor ill will behind a surface of politeness.
>> This question always raised the question about who is right on naming
>> thing. Who has more empathy than the others. If you really think that by
>> laws will solve that you're wrong. However only politeness and respect of
>> the other will make it possible to discuss between each other. Even though
>> who disagree with. And this is why it's important to have the respect of
>> the other made as a rule, a conduct. Empathy is too emotionally charged and
>> doesn't take in consideration the ego (in its pure definition) of each
>> parts. It is also creating a new way to control people and reject the
>> differences by applying a varnish on it, saying that diversity is about
>> having people at the same level.
>> There is a lot of literature about it. First by reading "brave new world"
>> from Huxkley. This paper also summarise it:
> huxley of course...
>>  > P.S. the word "polite" mentioned zero times on code of conduct page.
>>> See above. Saying "be polite" is only the start of a longer
>>> conversation, one we've been having for years now in various places --
>>> and one that shows that not everyone has the same level of understanding.
>>> I am -1 on any reductionist single-sentence approach as it
>>> will simply leave too many loopholes. We should not be placed in a
>>> position where we must have semantic arguments about what I think
>>> polite means vs. what you think polite means. Given the difficulties
>>> CouchDB has had as a community over the years, we must necessarily be
>>> explicit in the list of what we do and do not tolerate. If that list
>>> proves insufficient we need to grow it over time.
>>> -Joan
>> A quick note about that but all the discussion in communities about
>> having by-laws and rules have finished by agreeing in a short version of
>> them. Most of the time by only using a Coc as a way to define the social
>> agreement and a list of guidelines aside on how to manage discussions and
>> other stuff related to the project. Most of the time in the form of an
>> extensive contributing document.
> I wanted to say "most of the discussions" , all in the communities i am a
> member (even the PSF) or i joined.
> - benoit

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