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From Andy Wenk <a...@nms.de>
Subject Re: Code of Conduct & Diversity Statement draft needs your feedback!
Date Sun, 18 May 2014 21:10:54 GMT
Hi Joan and Jan,

> Thanks for the feedback. If we were voting I'd treat your response as
> a -0. Indeed, part of understanding where another person is coming from
> is respect, but respect does not go far enough.

No, that would have been a +0 :)

Thanks for both your great explanations and clarifications. I expected sth.
like this because I already thought, that I translated the word empathic
too simple. But I have to admit, that the German word "Empathie" is not in
my daily usage. The Link to the German Wiki Jan posted helped me understand
it better.

I understand the intention behind using the word empathic and it's fine for
me.

So I am +1 on using it ...

Thanks a lot

Cheers

Andy


On 18 May 2014 20:18, Jan Lehnardt <jan@apache.org> wrote:

> Heya Joan,
>
> excellent explanation, thank you!
>
> In addition to your points, from a German native speakers perspective,
> „Empathie“ means exactly what we want, in German:
> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathie — The free translation
> „Einfühlsamkeit“ includes „fühlen“, which means „to feel“ and I think
> that’s the foundation for Andy’s point. I’d say, ignore that particular
> potential translation and go with „Empathie“ instead :)
>
> Best
> Jan
> --
>
>
> On 18 May 2014, at 18:53 , Joan Touzet <wohali@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > Hi Andy,
> >
> > Thanks for the feedback. If we were voting I'd treat your response as
> > a -0. Indeed, part of understanding where another person is coming from
> > is respect, but respect does not go far enough.
> >
> > The word empathetic (or empathic, a spelling variation) appears in many
> > of the other upstream codes of conduct. I had a feeling there might be
> > some confusion around the word in different languages, which is why I
> > placed a reference definition at the bottom of the document.
> >
> > As an Apache project, we "value community over code." Translating this
> > into our code of conduct means that, all other things being equal, we
> > should prioritize good interpersonal relationships over good code. Let
> > me explain how I see this choice being a net positive to CouchDB.
> >
> > Empathy differs from sympathy and compassion. It describes a human
> > ability to comprehend others through identification with their logical
> > and emotional viewpoints.  This is especially important to call out in
> > an environment like ours, where we are a fully distributed team who
> > communicate almost exclusively via the printed word.
> >
> > We all have a shared goal - improving CouchDB - but we will all have
> > different hopes, dreams and expectations about what that means and where
> > the project will go. It is critical to recognize another person's
> > feelings and argument position when it comes to any sort of discussion
> > about the project, whether there is agreement or not.
> >
> > It is also a community, like most of software development today, where
> > there is a statistical abundance of atypical human behaviour. This
> > includes but is not limited to individuals who behave along the autistic
> > spectrum, those who are are extremely antisocial or narcissistic, or
> > have difficulty in the regulation of their own emotional state. For
> > these individuals in particular (but not just for them!) empathy is
> > challenging. Calling out that it is valued here is a gentle reminder to
> > these populations to reinforce acceptable interaction patterns.
> >
> > This is an inherently subjective matter and cannot be sidelined or
> > ignored simply to focus on more cut-and-dry topics like technical code
> > reviews.  Further, it tends to be a less lawful area, one that is harder
> > to systemize, so it requires special consideration and focus, especially
> > for those to whom such thought does not come easily. We are also
> > acknowledging that people will not act without emotion, especially when
> > they are working on a volunteer project they join because of their own
> > wants, needs and desires. As developers in this community, it behooves
> > us to empathize with users, developers, committers and PMC members prior
> > to reacting to them. It explicitly acknowledges our own emotional
> > reactions as well as those around us.
> >
> > I hope this analysis is clear. Empathy, not just respct, is crucial to
> > the long-term success of our project.
> >
> > -Joan
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Andy Wenk" <andywenk@apache.org>
> > To: dev@couchdb.apache.org
> > Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2014 10:27:25 AM
> > Subject: Re: Code of Conduct & Diversity Statement draft needs your
> feedback!
> >
> > Hi Joan,
> >
> > thanks a lot. I have read the post the first time and it is really
> awesome.
> > It is very clear and I think also non-native English speaking folks can
> > understand everything.
> >
> > The only thing I stumbled a bit upon was "Be empathetic, welcoming,
> > friendly and patient:" - here empathetic. The German translation is
> > "einfühlsam". I personally would not use this word for a behaviour I
> expect
> > in a technical project. I would use it in a community where I discuss
> very
> > personal things like how I can have a better life or how to be a better
> > partner. Maybe others have this feeling also. It's a bit too much "power
> > flower" for me.
> >
> > Regarding the endnotes and explanation why this word is used, I would
> > change it to
> >
> > "Be respectful, welcoming, friendly and patient:"
> >
> > But finally it is NOT a blocker for me also.
> >
> > I will read everything again later.
> >
> > Thanks again :)
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Andy
> >
> >
> > On 18 May 2014 01:19, Joan Touzet <wohali@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Hello everyone,
> >>
> >> The draft CoC and diversity statement have been published at:
> >>
> >>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=41812010
> >>
> >> The wiki is a bit slow today so if it doesn't load the first time, hit
> >> reload and be patient.
> >>
> >> Please take the time to review this and post comments here on the dev
> >> ML.
> >>
> >> Outstanding items (2 and 3 are specifically for the PMC):
> >>
> >>  1. Create expanded CoC for conferences/events
> >>  2. Determine appropriate venue and scope for diversity ML
> >>  3. Determine appropriate private reporting compliance mechanism
> >>
> >> -Joan
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Andy Wenk
> > Hamburg - Germany
> > RockIt!
> >
> > GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
> >
> > https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>
>


-- 
Andy Wenk
Hamburg - Germany
RockIt!

http://www.couchdb-buch.de
http://www.pg-praxisbuch.de

GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588

https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc

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