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Subject: Summary of IRC Meeting in #couchdb-meeting
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To: dev@couchdb.apache.org
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Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 19:52:46 +0000 (UTC)

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Summary of IRC Meeting in #couchdb-meeting at Wed Apr 16 19:02:33 2014:

Attendees: Wohali, nslater, awenkhh, vmx, benoitc, kzx, jan____, Humbedooh, chewbranca, rnewson

- Preface
- bigcouch merge
  - Info: work on the bigcouch merge has started again and will make good progress 
- rcouch merge 
  - Action: rnewson to bring up windows support on dev@
  - Action: jan____ to look at producing rcouch merge request for help blog post
- advocat hub
- 1.6.0 release
  - Action: pringles for everyone (not really)
- COUCHDB-1986
- weekly new


IRC log follows:

## Preface ##
[Wed Apr 16 19:03:17 2014] <Humbedooh>: aah
[Wed Apr 16 19:03:21 2014] <Humbedooh>: ASFBot: karma add awenkhh 3
[Wed Apr 16 19:06:24 2014] <awenkhh>: welcome everybody 
[Wed Apr 16 19:06:34 2014] <nslater>: ACTION feels welcomed
[Wed Apr 16 19:06:38 2014] <awenkhh>: we have the following topics for today
[Wed Apr 16 19:07:20 2014] <awenkhh>: rcouch & bigcouch merge, COUCHDB-1986, 1.6 release
[Wed Apr 16 19:07:31 2014] <nslater>: please also add: advocate hub
## bigcouch merge ##
[Wed Apr 16 19:08:19 2014] <awenkhh>: rnewson would be cool if you go ahead with it 
[Wed Apr 16 19:08:22 2014] <rnewson>: my only note on the bigcouch merge is that I (and others soon I think) have restarted work on our branch
[Wed Apr 16 19:08:46 2014] <nslater>: do we have any idea about timelines?
[Wed Apr 16 19:08:50 2014] <rnewson>: I know chewbranca is also finishing up his PR's for the mrview work after my initial review found some problems
[Wed Apr 16 19:09:40 2014] <chewbranca>: yeah that should be sorted out this week and we can continue the review
[Wed Apr 16 19:09:41 2014] <rnewson>: nslater: the merge is strategically important for Cloudant, more so than it was before we started, so expect to see sustained effort as we ramp back up again
[Wed Apr 16 19:09:47 2014] <nslater>: great news
[Wed Apr 16 19:10:04 2014] <awenkhh>: rnewson sounds great!
[Wed Apr 16 19:10:48 2014] <awenkhh>: any additions to the topic?
[Wed Apr 16 19:12:02 2014] <awenkhh>: #info work on the bigcouch merge has started again and will make good progress 
## rcouch merge  ##
[Wed Apr 16 19:13:17 2014] <Wohali>: Andy and I have started reviewing the code in its current state on the branch
[Wed Apr 16 19:13:18 2014] <awenkhh>: Wohali you started reviewing https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COUCHDB-1994
[Wed Apr 16 19:13:21 2014] <nslater>: can someone assist benoit please in getting the word out that we need more testing
[Wed Apr 16 19:13:39 2014] <nslater>: ideally, i'd like a blog post, and i can handle sustained promotion of that over a multi-week period 
[Wed Apr 16 19:13:42 2014] <Wohali>: I've identified a number of problems, specially broken Windows builds, and am addressing directly. I should have a PR this week
[Wed Apr 16 19:13:56 2014] <awenkhh>: nslater yes and the a blog post as you have suggested would be great 
[Wed Apr 16 19:14:18 2014] <Wohali>: The good news is that we should be able to simplify our build process a lot, especially if builders pull pre-built Erlang and ICU binaries from upstream.
[Wed Apr 16 19:14:29 2014] <nslater>: Wohali: great news
[Wed Apr 16 19:14:30 2014] <Wohali>: The bad news is that it's a lot of Makefile and rebar rework ;)
[Wed Apr 16 19:14:41 2014] <Wohali>: AH well, this is what you get when you abandon autotools ;)
[Wed Apr 16 19:14:42 2014] <nslater>: Wohali: we're planning to drop all of the makefile stuff aren't we?
[Wed Apr 16 19:14:57 2014] <jan____>: maybe as a first step we mention it in the weekly?
[Wed Apr 16 19:15:01 2014] <jan____>: I can ping lena
[Wed Apr 16 19:15:06 2014] <awenkhh>: jan____ +1
[Wed Apr 16 19:15:09 2014] <Wohali>: nslater: There is still a top-level makefile, and rcouch itself still uses makefiles to build ICU and Spidermonkey, naturally.
[Wed Apr 16 19:15:09 2014] <nslater>: that's a good first step
[Wed Apr 16 19:15:24 2014] <nslater>: but i'd still like that blog post if someone wants to step forward for that
[Wed Apr 16 19:15:30 2014] <nslater>: Wohali: gotcha
[Wed Apr 16 19:15:46 2014] <rnewson>: how much of that makefile work is redundant or would need redoing given the bigcouch build scripts?
[Wed Apr 16 19:15:47 2014] <Wohali>: But yes, for instance, it means having a build.cmd in addition to a build.sh for ICU (though I think the best answer is to punt on compiling ICU for Windows and instruct potential builders to just use upstream binaries)
[Wed Apr 16 19:15:53 2014] <jan____>: nslater: do you have a TOC in mind for said blog post?
[Wed Apr 16 19:16:30 2014] <nslater>: jan____: nope. i'm not familiar enough with the topic. the blog post should ideally provide a brief description of what we're trying to do, who it is relevant for, and steps that indicate how to test/help out
[Wed Apr 16 19:16:44 2014] <Wohali>: rnewson: I need to look again, but I think not a hwole lot...at the very least it's building experience (in my head if nowhere else) on how to get this build done with the MSVC toolchain, and do our best to avoid relying on shell scripts / shellisms
[Wed Apr 16 19:17:02 2014] <rnewson>: ok
[Wed Apr 16 19:17:04 2014] <jan____>: that’s what I meant, thanks! I’ll see if I can doodle something up
[Wed Apr 16 19:17:08 2014] <nslater>: ah heh
[Wed Apr 16 19:17:10 2014] <awenkhh>: jan____ scanning the mail archive with search for rcouch + status will bring good results 
[Wed Apr 16 19:17:23 2014] <rnewson>: We should raise Windows as a supported platform as a topic
[Wed Apr 16 19:17:24 2014] <jan____>: awenkhh: thanks!
[Wed Apr 16 19:17:32 2014] <rnewson>: it seems unwise to encourage it given how shitty it is in practice.
[Wed Apr 16 19:17:56 2014] <nslater>: rnewson: classic dogfooding no? get people using it, while it's shitty, and you get patches to make it less shitty
[Wed Apr 16 19:18:04 2014] <jan____>: rnewson: can you clarify, I’m unsure I get your point
[Wed Apr 16 19:18:10 2014] <nslater>: as long as we indicate the status
[Wed Apr 16 19:18:39 2014] <kzx>: on the building topic, rpms and deb packages (preferable self-contained with erlang releases) would be awesome
[Wed Apr 16 19:18:43 2014] <Wohali>: I think rnewson is suggesting dropping support entirely
[Wed Apr 16 19:18:50 2014] <rnewson>: I am.
[Wed Apr 16 19:19:07 2014] <nslater>: i think i need more justification than that than "our support isn't great right now"
[Wed Apr 16 19:19:20 2014] <rnewson>: but I'm really saying we should discuss it.
[Wed Apr 16 19:19:24 2014] <nslater>: especially if we have people who are working on it
[Wed Apr 16 19:19:30 2014] <nslater>: two, i believe, right now
[Wed Apr 16 19:19:33 2014] <Wohali>: let's add that ot the end of the meeting agenda then?
[Wed Apr 16 19:19:35 2014] <Wohali>: three
[Wed Apr 16 19:19:45 2014] <rnewson>: I think that we can't support it well, it doesn't work well, and requires a small subset of our team to even get it to build, as good enough reasons to ditch it.
[Wed Apr 16 19:19:51 2014] <Wohali>: otherwise, rcouch review continues apace
[Wed Apr 16 19:19:59 2014] <jan____>: aye, got it. Sounds like nice an healthy epic thread for dev@ :)
[Wed Apr 16 19:20:11 2014] <nslater>: agreed
[Wed Apr 16 19:20:14 2014] <nslater>: let's bump this
[Wed Apr 16 19:20:16 2014] <chewbranca>: Wohali and dch are the only developers using it, correct?
[Wed Apr 16 19:20:20 2014] <jan____>: thanks for clarifying Wohali & rnewson 
[Wed Apr 16 19:20:41 2014] <nslater>: chewbranca: we'd need a comprehensive survey to determine that for sure
[Wed Apr 16 19:20:53 2014] <nslater>: which is next to impossible to get, of course
[Wed Apr 16 19:20:55 2014] <Wohali>: chewbranca: incorrect
[Wed Apr 16 19:21:15 2014] <nslater>: we need an owner. who's going to bring this up on dev?
[Wed Apr 16 19:21:17 2014] <Wohali>: chewbranca: me, dch and a third are the only *committers* working on it but there are other consumers. We can probably get a count of the # of downloads fomr the website, too.
[Wed Apr 16 19:21:24 2014] <Wohali>: rnewson should post it since it's his motion
[Wed Apr 16 19:21:38 2014] <nslater>: #action rnewson to bring up windows support on dev@
[Wed Apr 16 19:21:57 2014] <vmx>: i know at least of one project actually using couchdb on windows (they bundle it)
[Wed Apr 16 19:22:16 2014] <nslater>: #action jan____ to look at producing rcouch merge request for help blog post
[Wed Apr 16 19:22:47 2014] <Wohali>: 15:18 < Humbedooh> [off] I'm going bike riding for a while, if your cloak gets updated, awenkhh, let nslater or jan____ close the meeting
## advocat hub ##
[Wed Apr 16 19:23:34 2014] <nslater>: heh...
[Wed Apr 16 19:23:43 2014] <awenkhh>: nslater your turn :) 
[Wed Apr 16 19:23:53 2014] <vmx>: sorry for being slow, that's the project that uses couchdb on windows: https://github.com/omniscale/gbi-client
[Wed Apr 16 19:24:43 2014] <nslater>: okay, so, i am currently going through the onboarding process with my account manager. i am attending various webinars, and what have you. wearing my suit and tie while doing so, of course
[Wed Apr 16 19:25:31 2014] <nslater>: my next call is wednesday next week. wont be finished by then. but making good progress. i am yet to create any of our initial challenges. and yet to devise our initial rewards
[Wed Apr 16 19:25:47 2014] <nslater>: once i have a basic setup going, i'll be looking to invite admins from the marketing@ list
[Wed Apr 16 19:26:00 2014] <nslater>: and am happy to do calls with people to bring them up to speed, or whatever is needed
[Wed Apr 16 19:26:04 2014] <awenkhh>: nslater ok so for now it's your party? do you need help?
[Wed Apr 16 19:26:08 2014] <nslater>: and am documenting resources, etc, o the wiki
[Wed Apr 16 19:26:19 2014] <nslater>: awenkhh: nope. just providing a status report
[Wed Apr 16 19:26:26 2014] <awenkhh>: nslater ok 
[Wed Apr 16 19:26:44 2014] <nslater>: i'm actually doing so well in the influitive advocate hub (quite meta) that i almost have enough points to exchange for an ipad. hah
[Wed Apr 16 19:26:55 2014] <awenkhh>: nslater thanks a lot for working on this topic !!!
[Wed Apr 16 19:27:05 2014] <nslater>: i'll be reaching out to marketing@ when i need to invite admins. the more the merrier
[Wed Apr 16 19:27:23 2014] <nslater>: we need to have a think about what sort of challenges we want to do, and what sorts of rewards to offer
[Wed Apr 16 19:27:29 2014] <nslater>: and also, how those rewards are going to be funded
[Wed Apr 16 19:27:35 2014] <nslater>: but those are all for another time
[Wed Apr 16 19:27:39 2014] <nslater>: end of update
[Wed Apr 16 19:27:54 2014] <jan____>: nslater: thanks!
[Wed Apr 16 19:27:55 2014] <awenkhh>: I am really curious how that will fit to our needs and what we will get :)
[Wed Apr 16 19:28:09 2014] <nslater>: first thing you will notice:
[Wed Apr 16 19:28:33 2014] <nslater>: all those times i am sharing links asking people to upvote, and rt, and whatever. i will be replacing them with a single link to the advocate hub, and an invitation to sign up and help us advocate couchdb
[Wed Apr 16 19:28:50 2014] <nslater>: the individual invitations to share things will be moved to challenges, and people can earn points for doing so
[Wed Apr 16 19:29:04 2014] <nslater>: my account manager has been showing me how to run an open hub like this
[Wed Apr 16 19:29:12 2014] <nslater>: (a lot of hubs are invite only)
[Wed Apr 16 19:29:26 2014] <awenkhh>: are there visible challenges already?
[Wed Apr 16 19:29:29 2014] <nslater>: nope
[Wed Apr 16 19:29:32 2014] <awenkhh>: ok
## 1.6.0 release ##
[Wed Apr 16 19:31:28 2014] <Humbedooh>: ASFBot: karma add awenkhh 3
[Wed Apr 16 19:32:25 2014] <Wohali>: #action pringles for everyone (not really)
[Wed Apr 16 19:32:34 2014] <jan____>: 1.6.x ci is all green: http://ci.couchdb.org:8888/view/1.6.x/
[Wed Apr 16 19:33:12 2014] <awenkhh>: I tested the rc2 Dirkjan made but there have been issues 
[Wed Apr 16 19:33:42 2014] <awenkhh>: so we stopped it and a rc3 will come soon I think
[Wed Apr 16 19:33:50 2014] <awenkhh>: jan____ yeah thanks on that !
[Wed Apr 16 19:33:59 2014] <jan____>: awenkhh: the rc2 vote has been aborted, Kxepal IIRC has fixed the remaining issues last night
[Wed Apr 16 19:34:10 2014] <awenkhh>: jan____ yes 
[Wed Apr 16 19:34:31 2014] <awenkhh>: that's what I meant that rc3 will come soon
[Wed Apr 16 19:34:35 2014] <awenkhh>: and then ..... 
[Wed Apr 16 19:34:48 2014] <awenkhh>: we get 1.6.0 finally on the street !
## COUCHDB-1986 ##
[Wed Apr 16 19:42:52 2014] <benoitc>: so will make a quick update on it since most of the recent work has been done by kxepal
[Wed Apr 16 19:43:11 2014] <benoitc>: we are investigating the issue in 2 ways
[Wed Apr 16 19:44:01 2014] <benoitc>: 1. seeing if it's a network issue. which i doubt. except if we have a bug in erlang
[Wed Apr 16 19:44:09 2014] <benoitc>: not sure if r14 has been tested
[Wed Apr 16 19:45:07 2014] <benoitc>: 2. the other thing we are checking is a more deeper issue somewhere in the code, and kxepal has posted recently some profiling I didn't have the time to read
[Wed Apr 16 19:45:11 2014] <benoitc>: yet
[Wed Apr 16 19:45:46 2014] <benoitc>: the current fix seems to mitigate the issue, though having it as a default is not usual
[Wed Apr 16 19:46:07 2014] <benoitc>: i will update the ticket soon with an updated status
[Wed Apr 16 19:46:48 2014] <awenkhh>: ok thanks a lot for the update benoitc 
## weekly new ##
[Wed Apr 16 19:48:00 2014] <awenkhh>: the weekly news have been well received 
[Wed Apr 16 19:48:16 2014] <awenkhh>: special thanks to Lena again :) 
[Wed Apr 16 19:48:33 2014] <jan____>: +1
[Wed Apr 16 19:49:08 2014] <awenkhh>: question: do we have enough input for the news or shall we ask the users again more directly ?
[Wed Apr 16 19:50:27 2014] <awenkhh>: well I think then we just keep on going with the wwekly news
[Wed Apr 16 19:50:45 2014] <awenkhh>: If there are no other topics or statements I would end the meeting 
[Wed Apr 16 19:51:25 2014] <awenkhh>: thanks everybody for attending and have a nice evening :)
[Wed Apr 16 19:51:40 2014] <jan____>: thanks all!
[Wed Apr 16 19:51:48 2014] <awenkhh>: ASFBot: meeting end


Meeting ended at Wed Apr 16 19:51:48 2014

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