couchdb-dev mailing list archives

Site index · List index
Message view « Date » · « Thread »
Top « Date » · « Thread »
From Simon Metson <si...@cloudant.com>
Subject Re: [NOTICE] Create marketing@ lis (Was: Re: Marketing suggestion)
Date Tue, 04 Feb 2014 09:44:54 GMT
I think the phrase is "disagree and commit". Make the list, if it’s not used or causes problems
close it.  

FWIW I like “topic” lists and think marketing@ is a good idea, especially to encourage
non-technical involvement.  


On Tuesday, 4 February 2014 at 09:35, Noah Slater wrote:

> Benoit, it's not that you're "the bad guy" for disagreeing. The
> problem is when you filibuster people until they run out of energy.
> This has been a problem for a long time now.
>  
> As we continue to grow CouchDB we need to get out of this mindset that
> unanimity is required to proceed on any action. You cannot scale a
> decision making process beyond a few people with that model. Our
> problems will only *worsen* unless we figure out way to solve this.
>  
> You seem to be implying that my approach (which is not really my
> approach, but rather the Apache approach) is silencing or
> disempowering people.
>  
> Quite the contrary.
>  
> In fact, I have openly stated that anyone on this mailing list may
> raise a formal objection and I will immediately cease my current
> action. And I will then move this to a vote so that we can tally
> people's opinions.
>  
> Nobody has done that yet. This is the 13th email now. And we're at 2549 words.
>  
> In fact, what I am doing is empowering.
>  
> Because I'm also stating that anyone else can do this. If you (dear
> reader) have a proposal, and you are worried that you're going to be
> filibustered off the mailing list, I invite you to share it with the
> group.
>  
> And I invite you to solicit clear, unambiguous objections. Do not let
> people send email after email with concerns, and nitpicks, and
> disquitions on nomenclature.
>  
> Remind people: so far I have not heard an objection. If someone has a
> formal objection to make, please make it.
>  
> > I had no response to the reasons I have gave (a "I read you" is not a response)
>  
> It is a response. I understand your concerns. What else do you want me
> to say? There's nothing else to discuss. I still think the mailing
> list is a good idea. I want to try it as an experiment, and am happy
> to report back to the PMC.
>  
>  
> On 4 February 2014 10:16, Benoit Chesneau <bchesneau@gmail.com (mailto:bchesneau@gmail.com)>
wrote:
> >  
> >  
> >  
> > On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 9:55 AM, Robert Samuel Newson <rnewson@apache.org (mailto:rnewson@apache.org)>
> > wrote:
> > >  
> > >  
> > > +1 to all that, Noah. I can only imagine what this looks like to casual
> > > readers.
> > >  
> > > Few things require unanimity and this is not one of them.
> > >  
> > > The reason I've stayed quiet on the proposal is that while I don't feel
> > > strongly for it, I don't feel strongly against it. It's not my time or
> > > effort being expended, and I applaud when others expend effort to help our
> > > project.
> > >  
> > > To see so many threads crash in the same way, still, is very upsetting.
> > > Benoit, when you do this, I generally just archive the thread and stop
> > > contributing. It's tiresome.
> > >  
> > > B.
> >  
> >  
> >  
> > I am not surprised.
> >  
> > I am off course the bad and hostile guy always in disagreement, always
> > reverting its position. Which is untrue. I of couse accept the decision of
> > most even if I disagree. This is the power of a democracy. But beeing in
> > disagreeement sometimes is not beeing hostile.
> >  
> > If nothing can be discussed then fine, let's supposed that concensus =
> > silent acceptation from the mass and forget little voices that express
> > themselves. This is indeed quite easier to handle. Now consider how this is
> > hostile for the little voice that express when the only response you get in
> > these threads is , oh the silent acceptation is enough, and anyway I don't
> > need it to continue what I wanted to do. This is just as saying, i am just
> > launching the thread, but in reality I am not looking for any consulting,
> > just looking for people that are following me. This is were the hostility
> > is and this is what can put people out of voice.
> >  
> > I didn't disagree about any marketing action in that thread. I also didn't
> > disagree at all. I objected to the creation of a new mailing-list when it
> > came in a discussion and gave my reasons for. I had no response to the
> > reasons I have gave (a "I read you" is not a response). In return to my
> > objections i was categorised about beeing hostile, and beeing an action
> > blocker, ... .
> >  
> > Thank you.
> >  
> > - benoit
>  
>  
>  
> --  
> Noah Slater
> https://twitter.com/nslater




Mime
View raw message