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From Alexander Shorin <kxe...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [discuss] couchapp.org down, couchapp.org spammed
Date Sun, 01 Dec 2013 15:47:10 GMT
Filippo,

I heard you, thanks.

And FYI show, list and other functions are already "plugins": you may
disable them at httpd_design_handlers config section in any time or
replace them by your own implementation.
--
,,,^..^,,,


On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 7:28 PM, Filippo Fadda
<filippo.fadda@programmazione.it> wrote:
>
> On Dec 1, 2013, at 4:26 AM, Alexander Shorin wrote:
>> You can do the same with Erlang query server since it has access to
>> all internal functions.
>
> I can do it in PHP inside my Query Server (I already said this to you), without the need
to investigate the CouchDB internals, trying to find the functions to do that. I can simply
include ElephantOnCouch inside my query server and use it. But I'm not gonna do that, because
I can obtain the same result with a simple PHP script.
> Should I use ErLang, learning something that is not documented, spending days, just to
obtain a little performance gain? Who cares!
> You know why Oracle invented PL/SQL, Microsoft created Transact SQL or any other RDBMS
uses an SQL dialect? BECAUSE THEY ARE SIMPLE!
> The internal functions you are talking about are not even documented for christ's sake.
>
>> But I don't think you'd like to shot youself
>> in foot by such side effects by losing all your data (; I even wonder
>> if you really wanted them since it's good practice to have no global
>> state and no side effects for any functions no matter where they are
>> been executed: on CouchDB or inside your program. No state and no side
>> effects guarantees you portability and explicit behaviour. For more
>> arguments follow the functional programming languages - this is quite
>> interesting world, but this is offtopic.
>
> The main purpose of a stored procedure is to elaborate data. The results are new data
or data changes. You can't do that inside a list or a show, so they are not stored procedures.
The only way you can do that is using ErLang, right? Wow, this is great, same as writing an
Oracle stored procedure using C and the Oracle undocumented "internal functions". I'm sarcastic.
> There is no point using list and show, unless you are writing a CouchApp using CouchDB
as an application server. Full stop. For me CouchDB is a database, not an application server.
Things like show and list shouldn't be part of the core.
>
>> Also, ability to debug code is mostly depends on query server - the
>> standalone process that executes design functions. To debug Erlang
>> function you may use Erlang features (I couldn't recommend any since
>> I'm currently follow debug-by-logs way); for Python I made mock query
>> server and quite rich set of utilities to test you code right in your
>> IDE without uploading it to CouchDB; for JavaScript you may even debug
>> inside your browser:
>> https://jhs.iriscouch.com/files/debugger/debug.html
>
> I'm not gonna complicate my life when I can use any IDE with xdebug, unit testing, step
by step debugging.
>
>> The idea of CouchApp not only to write some own code in
>> JS/PHP/Python/etc. but also to be able share them with easy using
>> replication feature. People are able to just replicate your app to own
>> local host (even to mobile futon) and they shouldn't it broken. The
>> rough edge are custom query servers, but it isn't an big issue: I'd
>> run Python query server on Android with easy, same should be for other
>> langs, I'm sure.
>
> And since I'm not interested in a CouchApp and I think CouchDB should be a database -
not an application server - I don't think the concept should be part of CouchDB. This is MY
opinion. You have a different vision of what CouchDB should be, an application server, we
already know that. Why do you insist so much?
>
>> Outside of CouchApp context, the main goal of show and list functions
>> to format doc and view responses in the way you need: return them as
>> nice HTML page or preprocess data before clients will get them or
>> something else. This is a feature: you may use it, you may don't.
>> Really, you don't argue for removal every PHP std function that you
>> found useless, right?(:
>
> I don't use them and I don't want them inside CouchDB because those functional requirements
(list and show) don't fit the goals of the product, since the product, for me, it's a database
and not an application server. It's pretty clear, why can't you understand?
> PHP is a different, it's not a database, it's a language with a standard library and
a ton of extensions.
> List and show could be made available as a CouchDB plugin. This plugin can be called
CouchApp. This is my vision. And this my last word on the subject.
>
> -Filippo

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