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From "ASF IRC Services" <>
Subject Summary of IRC meeting in #couchdb-meeting, Wed Dec 18 19:08:22 2013
Date Wed, 18 Dec 2013 20:06:39 GMT
Members present: jan____, deathbear, awenkhh, nslater, rnewson, chewbranca, Kxepal

Meeting summary:

1. Preface

2. 1.6 release
  a. garren / deathbear to package fauxton for 1.6.0 release manually (jan____, 2)

3. big merge plans
  a. (Kxepal, 3)

4. couchhack
  a. (Kxepal, 4)

5. i18n

- garren / deathbear to package fauxton for 1.6.0 release manually (jan____, 19:13:45)

IRC log follows:

# 1. Preface #

# 2. 1.6 release #
19:09:37 [Kxepal]: afaik the only blocker thing for the release is fauxton bits
19:10:07 [Kxepal]: can we help somehow with them? /cc garren deathbear chewbranca
19:10:30 [chewbranca]: what's the actual blocking issue? is there a ticket open?
19:10:37 [jan____]: right, I think garren wanted to package things last saturday, but that
didn’t seem to have happened.
19:10:52 [jan____]: concurrently nslater has been working on automating the thing, but I don’t
think that has landed yet
19:10:53 [Kxepal]: or we'll wait nslater for completely fauxton integration with autotools?
there is special branch with some work around
19:11:01 [jan____]: chewbranca: it is the build to share/www/fauxton step that is missing
19:11:16 [Kxepal]:
19:11:22 [jan____]: (or the automatic doing of the same  as part of the build process, whichever
arrives first)
19:11:39 [nslater]: don't wait for me
19:11:45 [nslater]: i'm probably not going to get it finished this year
19:11:45 [chewbranca]: gotcha, so basically including ./bin/grunt couchdb in the makefile?
19:11:53 [nslater]: i go on vacation at the end of this week
19:11:53 [Kxepal]: chewbranca: I'm not sure that there is special JIRA issue for this topic,
but it was mentioned several times in ML
19:11:59 [nslater]: and i am flat out with holiday stuff
19:11:59 [nslater]: sorry about that
19:12:07 [jan____]: chewbranca: it is more complicated that that
19:12:07 [nslater]: just do another manual release into the source
19:12:15 [deathbear]: So I don't know where garren is at with packaging things
19:12:29 [nslater]: deathbear chewbranca i have a branch where i am working on this stuff
19:12:31 [deathbear]: he might have wanted to get his proxy stuff in, otherwise I would do
it for you guys
19:12:44 [nslater]: i have the bulk of it in but it needs more work. it's not gonna get done
for this release
19:12:59 [nslater]: Kxepal so please do not consider this a blocker, and request that garren
do a manual update
19:13:15 [Kxepal]: nslater: ok
19:13:45 [jan____]: #action garren / deathbear to package fauxton for 1.6.0 release manually
19:13:46 [nslater]: chewbranca deathbear please track work here
19:13:59 [nslater]: or on the branch, already linked
19:14:14 [nslater]:
19:14:15 [nslater]: ^ my commits over couchhack
19:14:37 [deathbear]: ok
19:14:52 [nslater]: i'd like to talk to you both at some point to make sure the full integration
works for you
19:14:54 [nslater]: and i am doing it ideomatically, etc
19:15:02 [nslater]: i gotta dash now. sorry!
19:15:22 [deathbear]: Garren and I are both online like.. uuh whatever time is 4 hours ago
for you.
19:15:37 [nslater]: hehe
19:15:39 [deathbear]: nslater he's going on vacation soon, so ping us tomorrow
19:16:07 [nslater]: deathbear probably in the new year now
19:16:14 [nslater]: as i say, i got two weeks of vacation
19:16:29 [deathbear]: oh well sweet. less stress for me :D
19:16:30 [nslater]: hehe
19:19:51 [Kxepal]: ok, we have a plan(: hope djc will also have a time to prepare release
in this year. moving forward?
19:20:40 [jan____]: +1

# 3. big merge plans #
19:21:03 [Kxepal]: #link
19:21:51 [jan____]: ACTION parties like it is 1999
19:22:35 [Kxepal]: the issue above has simple schema of merge process. it seems that both
bigcouch and rcouch will be continuously merged into separate integration branch which will
holds all changes for pre-1.6 release state
19:22:58 [jan____]: that is correct.
19:24:00 [jan____]: there are a few incompatible changes in rcouch and bigcouch and it is
no good for either of them to wait for the other because of extra work, so we hope to minimise
issues by doing an upfront rebase with master and then periodic integration in a merge branch
before things go into master
19:24:15 [jan____]: that is on the procedural end, the actual issues are discussed in the
16 or so linked issue
19:24:20 [jan____]: s
19:24:43 [rnewson]: That's not quite what we agreed.
19:25:05 [rnewson]: The bigcouch branch will proceed from its current state to fully working
state without any code coming into it from rcouch.
19:26:19 [jan____]: …I wasn’t done typing :)
19:26:20 [Kxepal]: rnewson: the schema says that so it be for both branches, but periodically
these work will be merged into integration branch
19:26:27 [jan____]: but thanks for filling in
19:26:50 [Kxepal]: but let's wait for Jan reply since this is my assumptions(:
19:27:20 [jan____]: either branch can choose to pull things in from the integration branch,
but can avoid dealing with incompatiblities
19:27:51 [rnewson]: :/ still don't think we agreed to that. 
19:28:39 [jan____]: until we are at a point where both rcouch and bigcouch are merged but
don’t necessarily work together. the idea is that we make it easy for both cloudant and
rcouch to make sure all is merged and working and then apache couchdb as a team worries about
getting it all together
19:28:52 [jan____]: rnewson: sorry if I repeated it wrongly, please clear things up
19:30:05 [rnewson]: I tried to clarify that we wouldn't be merging both contributions at the
same time. that is, into an integration branch which is then pulled down to master.
19:30:20 [rnewson]: There needs to be a commit on couchdb master than includes one contribution,
then another that includes the other.
19:30:37 [rnewson]: unless, of course, we can eliminate all concerns that the combination
works correctly ahead of time.
19:30:50 [jan____]: ok, then the image we came up with on the whiteboard didn’t include
that fact
19:31:05 [jan____]: I’m just the messenger here :)
19:32:43 [rnewson]: I don't want to tie the meeting up, I'll just state that I (and, by extension,
Cloudant) need to complete our contribution of our work into a recent-ish couchdb/master branch
without any other changes being introduced. After that point, I guess it doesn't matter how
it's merged to master.
19:32:50 [jan____]: rnewson: thanks for the clarification, I’ll try and update 1999 accordingly
19:33:44 [rnewson]: Ideally, from my point of view, that means merging our branch to master
first, which is why Cloudant is arranging for our core team to meet in Seattle for a week
of hacking in January.
19:33:56 [rnewson]: anyway, I've said my bit, continue with meeting.
19:34:33 [jan____]: thanks!
19:37:03 [jan____]: any more questions?
19:37:54 [Kxepal]: nothing from me about the topic

# 4. couchhack #
19:41:32 [Kxepal]: so, jan____, how it was?(:
19:41:48 [jan____]: CouchHack Vienna took place friday-monday last weekend with rnewson, nslater,
vmx, lgierth, benoitc, dch and myself. dch ran the show, thanks so much for pulling it all
19:42:02 [jan____]: it was pretty cool to meet in person, we should absolutely do this more
19:42:41 [jan____]: we decided it was most important to talk about the merges and that’s
what we ended up doing. At least my understanding about how this is all supposed to be going
down has greatly increased
19:43:24 [Kxepal]: #link
19:43:39 [Kxepal]: ^^^ important notes about
19:44:02 [jan____]: and then Vienna was a nice background for evening activities, though a
bit cold :)
19:44:32 [jan____]: There were some more topics discussed on Friday and Monday that I missed
due to travels, but vmx and dch should be able to fill in
19:46:18 [Kxepal]: oh..great! I wished be there, but suddenly I couldn't
19:46:34 [awenkhh]: ?
19:46:40 [jan____]: Kxepal: too bad, there will be many more in the future
19:46:48 [jan____]: awenkhh: meeting in progress
19:46:49 [awenkhh]: hi
19:47:10 [awenkhh]: ??? oh I am in the wrong timezone .... sorry!
19:47:18 [awenkhh]: I thought 21:00 Berlin
19:47:33 [jan____]: yeah, no :)
19:47:35 [jan____]: Kxepal: next topic?
19:48:09 [Kxepal]: I haven't any. may be awenkhh has something to discuss?
19:48:09 [awenkhh]: I could say / write a bit about i18n
19:48:32 [Kxepal]: great!
19:48:32 [awenkhh]: well 

# 5. i18n #
19:49:02 [awenkhh]: I am really happy that there are already many translators in various languages
19:49:04 [awenkhh]: awesome!
19:49:36 [awenkhh]: actually I have the feeling, that we are not making that huge progress
but that's ok 
19:49:40 [awenkhh]: it's the beginning
19:49:55 [awenkhh]: I am thinking about how to motivate the participating people 
19:50:03 [awenkhh]: ... a bit more 
19:50:05 [awenkhh]: on the other hand 
19:50:18 [awenkhh]: it's really time consuming if one wants to make it good
19:50:47 [awenkhh]: so if there are any ideas ... I would love to hear them :)
19:50:54 [Kxepal]: it's hard work to translate things. you have not only know how to translate,
but also understand things you're translating to not loose their meaning
19:51:02 [awenkhh]: yeah exactly
19:51:18 [awenkhh]: one thing I would like to ask;
19:51:47 [awenkhh]: when will be a good point to include the creation of the docs in the various
languages to the build process? 
19:52:32 [awenkhh]: and ...
19:52:47 [awenkhh]: Kxepal are you still in that boat? :)
19:53:02 [jan____]: awenkhh: as soon as we get to figuring it out. I think January is earliest
to talk about that
19:53:02 [Kxepal]: awenkhh: I think when at least to one language translation will be done.
it's worthless to ship half german half english docs
19:53:24 [Kxepal]: imho, but there could be another point of view
19:53:24 [awenkhh]: jan____ Kxepal both true ... 
19:53:39 [awenkhh]: no no ... that's fine
19:54:09 [awenkhh]: ok 
19:54:47 [awenkhh]: so I will think about how we could attract 1.) more translators and 2.)
motivate the existing ones to go forward
19:55:09 [awenkhh]: maybe we could propose some easy deadlines ... like a road map 
19:55:32 [awenkhh]: not sure if that's cool or if we say "it's done when it's done"
19:56:10 [jan____]: I think shipping some translated docs is better than none, it should encourage
contributors to get things out faster
19:56:39 [jan____]: also, if someone is reading some translated docs and finds untranslated
bits, they may jump in and help, if we put pointers everywhere
19:57:02 [Kxepal]: good point
19:57:17 [awenkhh]: I am planning some time during the upcoming holidays for translation 
19:57:40 [Kxepal]: I think we could add link to pootle from docs like we have one for github
19:57:42 [awenkhh]: soi maybe we have soon the German docs half done or so ... then we could
do it like jan____ proposed
19:58:12 [awenkhh]: Kxepal yeah good point!
19:58:17 [jan____]: awenkhh: I think as soon as the introduction chapters are done, things
could go live
19:58:33 [jan____]: and then have links from all untranslated pages to the translation ponints
19:58:40 [awenkhh]: jan____ ... that will be soon :)
19:58:55 [awenkhh]: sound like a good plan!
19:59:25 [jan____]: awenkhh: that could also be communicated as a barrier for in-progress
translations to hit before they get published
20:00:03 [awenkhh]: sry ... what do you mean here? barrier?
20:00:18 [Kxepal]: we're also have to decide where host online translated html docs
20:00:33 [jan____]: awenkhh: I think we shouldn’t publish docs that have half a chapter
20:00:33 [Kxepal]: RTD lacks of such feature
20:00:35 [jan____]: or just a few bits
20:00:50 [jan____]: Kxepal: let’s leave that for later
20:00:57 [Kxepal]: jan____: ok
20:00:58 [awenkhh]: jan____ ok ... got it ...  
20:01:24 [jan____]: there should be a defined criterion for when a translation starts to get
published and ideally that is as fast as possible
20:01:39 [jan____]: so I’d suggest picking something like an introduction chapter and make
that the first bit that needs to be translated
20:02:09 [awenkhh]: imho when a chapter is translated, it can be published
20:02:24 [awenkhh]: as you said - half chapters is uncool
20:02:26 [jan____]: as far as further strategeis to encourage people to translate is: make
a translation day, pick a friday afternoon or something i18n@ agrees on, where everybody meets
in IRC and just works on things for an hour or three
20:02:39 [jan____]: we did that a few times for cleaning up the wiki
20:02:47 [jan____]: awenkhh: yeah, that too
20:02:55 [awenkhh]: ahhh ... cool idea !
20:03:10 [awenkhh]: that will bring the people closer together 
20:03:17 [awenkhh]: cool!
20:03:26 [awenkhh]: I will organise that 
20:03:34 [jan____]: awenkhh: excellent
20:04:12 [awenkhh]: ok - thats what I have for this topic
20:04:32 [jan____]: thanks!
20:04:39 [jan____]: Kxepal: anything else?
20:04:47 [awenkhh]: yep :)
20:05:09 [Kxepal]: jan____: nothing more I see and time is getting out
20:05:19 [awenkhh]: more brainstorming for how to spread the word about CouchDB 
20:05:39 [awenkhh]: i did not manage to write it together so we could leave it for now 
20:05:54 [awenkhh]: sorry that I miss the beginning of this meeting!
20:05:57 [awenkhh]: missed
20:06:17 [Kxepal]: awenkhh: that's marketing thing and nslater is on it - you may consult
with him when he get from vaccantions (:
20:06:17 [Kxepal]: ASFBot: meeting end

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