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From Benoit Chesneau <>
Subject Re: [discuss] down, spammed
Date Sat, 30 Nov 2013 21:03:32 GMT
On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 9:50 PM, Filippo Fadda <> wrote:

> Alexander,
> PgREST is not PostgreSQL anyway, it's a project that uses PostgreSQL and I
> think CouchApp should be the same, maybe a plugin but not a core feature.

But PgRest is only possible if you can store procudure in postgres.
Procedure/functions/list/shows see why you can't simply say that.

> Which are the CouchDB goals? The goals are determined at blastoff time.
> You must ensure the goals are reasonable, attainable, simply stated,
> worthwhile, and carry and measurement, so that you can test the delivered
> product to ensure that it satisfies the goal. If the goal does not have
> these properties, then history demonstrates that it is unlikely the project
> will deliver anything useful.
> The goal is used throughout the requirements gathering activity. Each of
> the requirements that you gather must contribute, even if indirectly, to
> the goal. Requirements that don't contribute are not relevant, and should
> be discarded. Purpose of CouchDB is to store data, delivering applications,
> or both? Is the goal to create a database, an application server or both?

You again misunderstood what is a couchapp. couchapps were never only used
to deliver an html apps.

> CouchDB is an open source project, based on the community efforts. There
> is probably someone in charge, right? Who is in charge should discuss with
> the other stakeholders the goals of the product and drive the product
> construction to reach the goals. A product without a goal is not a product,
> it's just a bunch of lines of code. It's really cool that CouchDB can make
> a coffee because someone coded the ability in it, but I'm not interested in
> a coffee machine, I want a database.
> This project needs a goal. CouchApp can be part of it or not, I'm not the
> one who decides, but I think it shouldn't. You all know that I'm not the
> only one who thinks CouchDB should be just a cool database, as I know many
> of you, instead, like the idea of an application server. It might be a
> database, an application server or both, but at this point I think it's
> important to decide its goals.

If you just want a database then any KV is enough for your purpose. If now
you want a DBMS which at least I want, then you probably want a way to
store procedures and such to adapt the query language to your needs. Guess,
what is the purpose of lists and shows?

- benoit

> -Filippo
> On Nov 30, 2013, at 7:42 PM, Alexander Shorin wrote:
> > Suddenly, it isn't just a database since 0.9 release when design
> > functions like show, list and update was introduced. Couchapp isn't a
> > feature or a part of CouchDB - it's not something physical that could
> > be removed. It's the way of using CouchDB features to create real rich
> > applications that are hosted directly by CouchDB and used data of the
> > related database. This way is based on design functions
> > (show/list/update/validate_doc_update), views, replication, HTTP API.
> > You may use these features to create couchapps, you may use this
> > features in standalone, you may don't, but it's still same CouchDB.
> >
> > If you aware, the same CouchApp concept (self-hosted application on
> > top of database) is actively tried to be implemented on top of
> > PostgreSQL:
> >
> >
> > this isn't first attempt, but the most recent and more interested. If
> > people creates such stuff, may be there is really lack of application
> > server features in popular databases that they trying to fill?
> > Hopefully, CouchDB has such long ago, out of the box and for any
> > languages you'd like to use.
> >
> > --
> > ,,,^..^,,,

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