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From Alexander Shorin <kxe...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Futon.Next
Date Thu, 25 Oct 2012 17:55:19 GMT
On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 9:48 PM, Octavian Damiean <mainerror@gmail.com> wrote:
> Every front-end developer which has worked on a bigger project can tell you
> that modifying a big CSS file can get a little tedious at times. Depending
> on what you need to change this can become a real nightmare.

Sure, but Futon actually isn't a "bigger" or "enterprise" project
(let's be honest) to apply all available tools and features set to it,
that my idea was.

Ok, we're going in details of developing and offtopic by this way,
sorry. I just mailed my thoughts about all tools mentioned in this
thread, may be I'm wrong about some of them, but I glad to remind
about KISS principle(:

--
,,,^..^,,,


On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 9:48 PM, Octavian Damiean <mainerror@gmail.com> wrote:
> Every front-end developer which has worked on a bigger project can tell you
> that modifying a big CSS file can get a little tedious at times. Depending
> on what you need to change this can become a real nightmare.
>
> That's why I tend to advocate simple Less and rank it above plain CSS. In
> the end it is going to be plain CSS but you don't have to pull out your
> hairs if you need to change something.
>
> Also, you can develop your styles with Firebug just like you always do,
> however in the end you transform that into reusable code components and
> then compile it into CSS.
>
> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 7:44 PM, Alexander Shorin <kxepal@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 9:36 PM, Octavian Damiean <mainerror@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > It's not that simple Alexander.
>> >
>> > While we might be using Bootstrap, I'm sure we all agree that we don't
>> want
>> > to have the default Bootstrap style like a plethora of other websites
>> have.
>> > That means that we'll have to ship our own customized Less stylesheets
>> > which have to be compiled to CSS first. That's only one example.
>>
>> Sure, but why not plain everybody-known-css that easy to fix? CSS is
>> not horrible thing to wrap it with preprocessors while you could
>> develop your style within browser (hi, firebug) and sync changes
>> without recompiling, for example. It also will be much more easy to
>> fix minor nasty specific bugs in perspective while our styles sheets
>> wouldn't be so big and rich to use class inheritance and other things.
>>
>> --
>> ,,,^..^,,,
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 9:36 PM, Octavian Damiean <mainerror@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > It's not that simple Alexander.
>> >
>> > While we might be using Bootstrap, I'm sure we all agree that we don't
>> want
>> > to have the default Bootstrap style like a plethora of other websites
>> have.
>> > That means that we'll have to ship our own customized Less stylesheets
>> > which have to be compiled to CSS first. That's only one example.
>> >
>> > On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 7:31 PM, Alexander Shorin <kxepal@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi all!
>> >>
>> >> Short question: is there any reason to bring this preprocessors,
>> >> nodejs tools, some weird mini package managers for just an GUI for
>> >> some HTTP API?
>> >> Why not to keep Futon dead simple:
>> >>
>> >> git clone https://github.com/futon/futon
>> >> cd futon
>> >> couchapp push http://localhost:5984/mydb
>> >>
>> >> Simple. Easy. Works.
>> >>
>> >> Guys, we're not going to make yet another CRM with custom templates
>> >> and plugins. KISS. We'd already blamed Futon2 for his complicated
>> >> structure, please don't make Futon.Next already complicated before the
>> >> first commit pushed.
>> >>
>> >> P.S. About npm, jamjs and other non system package managers please
>> >> follow this message about why this is bad idea:
>> >> http://erlang.org/pipermail/erlang-questions/2012-October/069835.html
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> ,,,^..^,,,
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 9:14 PM, Ryan Ramage <ryan.ramage@gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >>> I think I need to explain that bit. If we want to use Bootstrap
and
>> >> less.js we need a build tool that will compile the less files into css
>> and
>> >> then upload the couchapp into couchdb. Grunt.js is a good fit  but it
>> is an
>> >> extra dependancy as it requires node.js. Maybe Erica could do that
>> instead.
>> >> At this stage these are pretty minor issues that will be easy to sort
>> out
>> >> later.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Also the less-to-CSS could be done at release time instead of
>> >> >> run-time, so only the people who hack on Futon will have to install
>> >> >> node. That would be fine with me, of course.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > I have been going back and forth on this topic in my head for a while.
>> >> > My thoughts.
>> >> >
>> >> > - I love having the power of a build system like grunt and tools like
>> >> > less, and precompilers etc. It's joy to a webdevs life.
>> >> > - building couchdb from source is already a massive endeavor for
>> >> > requirements. We have to watch we dont make it more difficult. eg,
now
>> >> > you need node, etc
>> >> > - Erica (might or might not) be bundled with couchdb, but I think it
>> >> > is the right choice for the final push to couchdb.
>> >> > - I dont think erica should have any extra tooling in it (ie less
>> >> > compiling), at most it will support build step hooks.
>> >> >
>> >> > With those points in mind I have been working on a pretty minimal
>> >> > erica build. It can be seen here:
>> >> >
>> >> > https://github.com/ryanramage/jam-garden-starter
>> >> >
>> >> > Here are the key points to it:
>> >> >
>> >> > - anyone can push with just erica on their system.
>> >> > - a production run can be called with the Make command. This requires
>> >> > jam (yes, a node module), which only alters one file, and nothing
>> >> > needs to change.
>> >> > - We would make a branch/tag that would have the production 'one file'
>> >> > checked in.
>> >> > - it uses a package manager (jamjs) for js dependencies which is
>> >> > _supported_ by 2 people in the couchdb community (caolan and myself)
>> >> > - it is following an 'attachment first' style that I am adding into
>> >> > erica. This is much more palatable for webdevs.
>> >> > * dont worry about the pouchdb stuff in there I was just playing, we
>> >> > can use any 'driver' we choose.
>> >>
>>

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