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From Octavian Damiean <mainer...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Futon.Next
Date Thu, 25 Oct 2012 17:57:49 GMT
Most of the named tools are exactly about the KISS principle. ;)

On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 7:55 PM, Alexander Shorin <kxepal@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 9:48 PM, Octavian Damiean <mainerror@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Every front-end developer which has worked on a bigger project can tell
> you
> > that modifying a big CSS file can get a little tedious at times.
> Depending
> > on what you need to change this can become a real nightmare.
>
> Sure, but Futon actually isn't a "bigger" or "enterprise" project
> (let's be honest) to apply all available tools and features set to it,
> that my idea was.
>
> Ok, we're going in details of developing and offtopic by this way,
> sorry. I just mailed my thoughts about all tools mentioned in this
> thread, may be I'm wrong about some of them, but I glad to remind
> about KISS principle(:
>
> --
> ,,,^..^,,,
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 9:48 PM, Octavian Damiean <mainerror@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Every front-end developer which has worked on a bigger project can tell
> you
> > that modifying a big CSS file can get a little tedious at times.
> Depending
> > on what you need to change this can become a real nightmare.
> >
> > That's why I tend to advocate simple Less and rank it above plain CSS. In
> > the end it is going to be plain CSS but you don't have to pull out your
> > hairs if you need to change something.
> >
> > Also, you can develop your styles with Firebug just like you always do,
> > however in the end you transform that into reusable code components and
> > then compile it into CSS.
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 7:44 PM, Alexander Shorin <kxepal@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 9:36 PM, Octavian Damiean <mainerror@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> > It's not that simple Alexander.
> >> >
> >> > While we might be using Bootstrap, I'm sure we all agree that we don't
> >> want
> >> > to have the default Bootstrap style like a plethora of other websites
> >> have.
> >> > That means that we'll have to ship our own customized Less stylesheets
> >> > which have to be compiled to CSS first. That's only one example.
> >>
> >> Sure, but why not plain everybody-known-css that easy to fix? CSS is
> >> not horrible thing to wrap it with preprocessors while you could
> >> develop your style within browser (hi, firebug) and sync changes
> >> without recompiling, for example. It also will be much more easy to
> >> fix minor nasty specific bugs in perspective while our styles sheets
> >> wouldn't be so big and rich to use class inheritance and other things.
> >>
> >> --
> >> ,,,^..^,,,
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 9:36 PM, Octavian Damiean <mainerror@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> > It's not that simple Alexander.
> >> >
> >> > While we might be using Bootstrap, I'm sure we all agree that we don't
> >> want
> >> > to have the default Bootstrap style like a plethora of other websites
> >> have.
> >> > That means that we'll have to ship our own customized Less stylesheets
> >> > which have to be compiled to CSS first. That's only one example.
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 7:31 PM, Alexander Shorin <kxepal@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Hi all!
> >> >>
> >> >> Short question: is there any reason to bring this preprocessors,
> >> >> nodejs tools, some weird mini package managers for just an GUI for
> >> >> some HTTP API?
> >> >> Why not to keep Futon dead simple:
> >> >>
> >> >> git clone https://github.com/futon/futon
> >> >> cd futon
> >> >> couchapp push http://localhost:5984/mydb
> >> >>
> >> >> Simple. Easy. Works.
> >> >>
> >> >> Guys, we're not going to make yet another CRM with custom templates
> >> >> and plugins. KISS. We'd already blamed Futon2 for his complicated
> >> >> structure, please don't make Futon.Next already complicated before
> the
> >> >> first commit pushed.
> >> >>
> >> >> P.S. About npm, jamjs and other non system package managers please
> >> >> follow this message about why this is bad idea:
> >> >>
> http://erlang.org/pipermail/erlang-questions/2012-October/069835.html
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> ,,,^..^,,,
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 9:14 PM, Ryan Ramage <ryan.ramage@gmail.com>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >>> I think I need to explain that bit. If we want to use
Bootstrap
> and
> >> >> less.js we need a build tool that will compile the less files into
> css
> >> and
> >> >> then upload the couchapp into couchdb. Grunt.js is a good fit  but
it
> >> is an
> >> >> extra dependancy as it requires node.js. Maybe Erica could do that
> >> instead.
> >> >> At this stage these are pretty minor issues that will be easy to sort
> >> out
> >> >> later.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Also the less-to-CSS could be done at release time instead
of
> >> >> >> run-time, so only the people who hack on Futon will have to
> install
> >> >> >> node. That would be fine with me, of course.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I have been going back and forth on this topic in my head for
a
> while.
> >> >> > My thoughts.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > - I love having the power of a build system like grunt and tools
> like
> >> >> > less, and precompilers etc. It's joy to a webdevs life.
> >> >> > - building couchdb from source is already a massive endeavor for
> >> >> > requirements. We have to watch we dont make it more difficult.
eg,
> now
> >> >> > you need node, etc
> >> >> > - Erica (might or might not) be bundled with couchdb, but I think
> it
> >> >> > is the right choice for the final push to couchdb.
> >> >> > - I dont think erica should have any extra tooling in it (ie less
> >> >> > compiling), at most it will support build step hooks.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > With those points in mind I have been working on a pretty minimal
> >> >> > erica build. It can be seen here:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > https://github.com/ryanramage/jam-garden-starter
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Here are the key points to it:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > - anyone can push with just erica on their system.
> >> >> > - a production run can be called with the Make command. This
> requires
> >> >> > jam (yes, a node module), which only alters one file, and nothing
> >> >> > needs to change.
> >> >> > - We would make a branch/tag that would have the production 'one
> file'
> >> >> > checked in.
> >> >> > - it uses a package manager (jamjs) for js dependencies which
is
> >> >> > _supported_ by 2 people in the couchdb community (caolan and
> myself)
> >> >> > - it is following an 'attachment first' style that I am adding
into
> >> >> > erica. This is much more palatable for webdevs.
> >> >> > * dont worry about the pouchdb stuff in there I was just playing,
> we
> >> >> > can use any 'driver' we choose.
> >> >>
> >>
>

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