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From Benoit Chesneau <>
Subject Re: website & jira
Date Tue, 17 Apr 2012 00:05:49 GMT
On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 1:07 AM, Noah Slater <> wrote:
> Some comments.
> "I wish it could have been discussed before too."
> Sorry to jump on you here Benoît, but this is not the way CouchDB works.
> And every time I see this unhealthy attitude raise its ugly head, I am
> going to stamp on it.
> CouchDB operates a culture of trust. We trust that community members are
> going to act in the interests of the project. Whatever you want to do, just
> have at it. It is easier to ask for forgiveness than it is to get
> permission.
> The only rule to that is: don't be a berk!
> This permission culture that we seem to have fostered in recent years is a
> blight on the project, and it is my hope that we can use recent events to
> shake it off. But we need to start by stamping it out where ever we see it.
> Setting an example.
> The website was not discussed prior to the launch, because I can tell you
> right now, with my hand on my heart, it would never have seen the light of
> day. We'd still be sat here, with a 5 year old site, moaning about it.
> Because everyone thinks they know how to design, and everyone has an
> opinion, and the thing would've been debated until it was killed.
> You can imagine how much I flinched when I read this: "Does anyone think it
> would be a good idea to list the proposed changes/issues to/with the site
> and then have the community vote on them?"
> Not picking on you here Jonathan, but it's a good example of what I am
> talking about.
> Voting on the design of the site is probably THE worst idea possible.
So. I never suggested that.

To be honest I don't care about the color, I don't care about the font
used. I don't care to have a pretty website or not. I'm not sure I
like that one. It's trendy for sure. Not my problem here either.

What I care on the other hand, is about the content, and the
information in. What could have been discussed, and may be fixed in
the future is which information is important. Who are we targeting.
There was some mails about that on the ml sometimes ago without real
decision on that.  Again I'm not talking about a vote or whatever. At
the end someone has to take a decision. The one that took the lead for
any reason. I'm pretty sure the website will need some edits (and
again i'm not speaking about design) in near future following recent
discussions. But it wasn't the topic of my mails.

What I care now, is that i'm not inclined to use the site because I
don't find the information easily like I used too. And I've found the
same feedback from some persons around. I listed the points
previously. I'm now worried that we can't even suggest something is
wrong. It looks like it for sure.

Trust? `Trust` works in both way. And if you don't trust someone
enough to think you can't discuss about that thing, there is a
problem. I personally trust you even if we never met and others in the
team. ANd pretty sure that we all know where to stop between
bikesheeding and the rest. Am I right, dunno. That's it.

Now to list my issues with the website:

- easy access to the support (tickets)
- reading the text is difficult
- making some links more obvious: mailing list web browsing

If I'm the only one to find issues about that fine. I will try to
bookmark the links I need even if I dislike to work that way.

- benoît

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