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From Jonathan Porta <>
Subject Re: website & jira
Date Mon, 16 Apr 2012 22:54:29 GMT
I agree regarding the differing use cases.  That is the problem exactly.  I
am not sure you could make a site that follows today's trends of "less is
more" and "creative simplicity" that also fully caters to the users, fully
caters to the developers and fully caters to the potential/new users.  That
a lot of content, not to mention several different web applications, to try
to cram into one webpage.

One thing worth pointing out is that contributing takes a higher level of
commitment on the user's part than does researching/trying CouchDB.

Someone willing to contribute would probably put up with having to spend a
few extra minutes the first time they decide to contribute.  Subsequent
visits are probably going to be via bookmarks/direct entry vs looking for
the link on the project homepage.

Basically, someone willing to contribute to the project will probably put
up with more hassle the first time than someone only interested in trying
it out.  Unfortunately, this seems a bit backwards in the whole customer
service mentality where you focus on taking care of your "valuable
customers".  But I think it makes sense to gear the site toward
newer/potential users in order to grow the user-base which will eventually
grow the number of contributors anyway.

Jonathan Porta

On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 4:30 PM, Eli Stevens (Gmail)

> I think that much of the disagreement stems from different audience /
> use cases in mind when proposing changes to the web site.  I see a few
> main user profiles that visitors to the website could be lumped into:
> - Neophyte users who are looking for information about CouchDB to see
> if it interests them; install it for the first time; upload first
> data; write first view; etc.
> - Slightly more experienced users who are looking for support; either
> they have a question not answered by the docs, they've found a bug
> they would like to report, etc.
> - Contributors to the project, looking to do whatever it is they're
> wanting to do today.
> Looking at it from the outside, I would say that the website simply
> can't meet the needs of both the first and the last group well at the
> same time.  The use cases are just too different.
> Also, since I think that there are at least an order of magnitude more
> potential users than there are actual users, and there's another order
> of magnitude more users than there are contributors, if you want the
> most impact, the website needs to target potential users first and
> foremost, while throwing a bone or two to current users, and totally
> ignoring contributors (because honestly, you guys did fine with the
> old website, and I'd bet a dollar none of you needs to have a link to
> click on to get to JIRA; it's in your history, bookmarks, or is your
> homepage ;).
> I understand the motivation to try and get more contributors to help
> the project progress, but I think that getting more users and letting
> the contributors come organically will be much more sustainable than
> going after contributors directly.  I could be wrong.
> Either way, figuring out the target audience will probably make a lot
> of these "do we need a link to JIRA; should it be called JIRA or
> Issues" questions have obvious answers.
> Cheers,
> Eli
> On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 1:15 PM, Miles Fidelman
> <> wrote:
> > Jonathan Porta wrote:
> >>
> >> Does anyone think it would be a good idea to list the proposed
> >> changes/issues to/with the site and then have the community vote on
> them?
> >
> >
> > Yes!
> >
> >> Opinion:
> >>
> >>
> >>    - I think the new site feels very much up to current design trends.
> >>    - The current site far surpasses the previous's site delivery of the
> >>    message: "CouchDB is alive and ready for you to start using it!"
> >>    - I think the focus on the text keeps it simple and easy to
> understand.
> >>    - The "Quick Links" listed under "Development" could be a good thing
> to
> >>    have at the very top of the "Want to Contribute?" section.  That way
> a
> >>    person could jump right in instead of TL;DR'ing that section.
> >
> >
> > Seems to me that there are some fairly standard things that people look
> for
> > along the top of a software-related web page, that are conspicuously
> missing
> > from the CouchDB page, unless you go digging at the bottom of the page
> or by
> > clicking through links.  A fairly common list is:
> > - About (or Learn More) - missing
> > - Downloads
> > - Documentation - missing
> > - Support - missing
> > - News (or Blog) - missing
> > - Development - missing ("Contribute" is ambiguous)
> > - Community - missing (admittedly "Mailing Lists" is there, but what
> about
> > links to unofficial archives, other Couch related sites, .....)
> > - Events
> > - Demo
> > - Facebook and/or Twitter
> >
> > I'd take a look at other sites, like,,
> ,
> > and so forth.
> >
> > --
> > In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
> > In practice, there is.   .... Yogi Berra
> >
> >

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