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From Noah Slater <nsla...@tumbolia.org>
Subject Re: website & jira
Date Tue, 17 Apr 2012 20:13:33 GMT
I have added your Markmail point to the wiki.

On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 9:10 PM, Noah Slater <nslater@tumbolia.org> wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Miles Fidelman <
> mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> wrote:
>>
>> With all due respect and appreciation for your efforts.... marketing is
>> one thing, utility is another.  While there's value to marketing, (IMHO)
>> utility counts more.  We're not talking about a magazine ad, we're talking
>> about a web site that people have taken some effort to find and go to -
>> they're (we're) looking for information - if the information isn't there,
>> it doesn't matter how pretty the site is.
>>
>
> I've been building websites for clients for the best part of a decade, so
> I assure you that I understand your points here. ;) When I said "a
> marketing site" I meant that it's primary purpose is to market CouchDB to
> new users. Not that we should think of it as a print ad. Trust me, I have
> worked with people who do think about websites like this, and I know how
> crazy that attitude is.
>
>
>
>> For evaluators (and I do a lot of software evaluation), the questions are:
>> - what is this thing
>> - what are the details (functionality, architecture, implementation)
>> - is the project "alive" (not in terms of a pretty site, but in terms of
>> an active community of users and developers) - which implies things that
>> change (blog, news, events, mailing lists with lots of activity, bug
>> tracker that shows things getting fixed, ....)
>> - who's using it
>> - details of what's involved in using it (demo, install instructions,
>> documentation, some slideshows)
>> - a sense of the community (blog, archives, forums, links to related
>> sites)
>>
>
> Agreed!
>
>
>> For new users, what counts are documentation, tutorials, FAQs, an active
>> and friendly support community.
>>
>
> Agreed, I think we could add a new section. This is already on the wiki.
>
> http://wiki.apache.org/couchdb/Website_Design
>
> I am starting to wonder if anyone is even checking this page! ;)
>
> No body has added anything to it since I created it, and yet this thread
> rages on. ;)
>
>
>> For experienced users, updates, detailed documentation, code libraries
>> (when users are developing stuff), support for odd problems, ...
>>
>
> This belongs on the wiki for now.
>
> The website is a single serving website.
>
> That is intentional, and I'd like to keep it that way.
>
> The wiki should be our primary focus for detailed information.
>
>
>> For contributors it becomes a matter of technical documentation,
>> community, easy-to-access CVS and bugtraq, lists and community....
>>
>
> Contributors should be focusing on the wiki too IMO. The "marketing site"
> or "homepage" or whatever you want to call our single serving website is
> not a one stop shop for everything to do with CouchDB. It's a primer, an
> intro, a landing page, a set of sign posts. Committers should know enough
> about the project to be able to use bookmarks, and use the wiki to provide
> more in-depth resources/links.
>
>
>> Sure, all the better if the stuff looks pretty, but more important that
>> things are there and EASY TO FIND (I emphasize this last point as it seems
>> to be the primary criticism people are raising.  Most of the other things
>> exist, somewhere - it's finding them that's difficult.)
>>
>
> Just to clarify, it is ONE person who is saying that the JIRA link is hard
> to find. And that one person is a committer. It just so happens that our
> user focused single serving website has moved his usual "link to get me
> JIRA" out of the way, and he's annoyed about it. I can understand that, but
> I am also trying to keep his concerns in context.
>
>
>> Mind you, I'm more of a function over form kind of guy, and a sample of
>> one, but when I lay the mongodb web site next to the couchdb web site
>> (since people seem to compare the two pieces of software quite a bit), the
>> mongo home page is uglier, but a lot easier to navigate.
>>
>
> The MongoDB website is easier to navigate? Heh. Ours is one page. By
> definition, there is no navigation, just scrolling. ;) Perhaps you mean
> that the sign posts to other resources are clearer. Again, all we've done
> is move our sign posts to the bottom of the page. We are, clearly,
> optimising for a specific use case here. Joe Random clicking on a link, and
> asking "WTF IS COUCHDB?" We answer that quite well, I think. Or at least,
> better than we used to. And there is certainly room for improvement. We
> could cram all of our project signposts in to the header, but we would be
> sacrificing the simplicity of the site, and the key focus on "WTF IS
> COUCHDB?" and "WHERE DO I DOWNLOAD?"
>
>
>> One thing that disturbed me, was a comment that there's no link to the
>> markmail archive because it's not "official."  That seems like a rather
>> unproductive approach to building and supporting a user community - links
>> to other resources should be encouraged, not discouraged - both as a way to
>> make the main site useful, and as a sign that the community is "alive."
>
>
> You have misinterpreted me. "Unofficial" resources are great! But with a
> single serving site you have to make some trade-offs in the name of
> simplicity. We have, in the design, a single link to the web interfaces for
> the mailing lists. So we have, naturally, chosen to link to the official
> ASF web interface. The Markmail links deserve a mention, but not here.
> There are other places we can promote them.
>

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