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From Bob Dionne <>
Subject Re: website & jira
Date Tue, 17 Apr 2012 10:02:12 GMT

On Apr 16, 2012, at 8:05 PM, Benoit Chesneau wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 1:07 AM, Noah Slater <> wrote:
>> Some comments.
>> "I wish it could have been discussed before too."
>> Sorry to jump on you here Benoît, but this is not the way CouchDB works.
>> And every time I see this unhealthy attitude raise its ugly head, I am
>> going to stamp on it.
>> CouchDB operates a culture of trust. We trust that community members are
>> going to act in the interests of the project. Whatever you want to do, just
>> have at it. It is easier to ask for forgiveness than it is to get
>> permission.
>> The only rule to that is: don't be a berk!
>> This permission culture that we seem to have fostered in recent years is a
>> blight on the project, and it is my hope that we can use recent events to
>> shake it off. But we need to start by stamping it out where ever we see it.
>> Setting an example.
>> The website was not discussed prior to the launch, because I can tell you
>> right now, with my hand on my heart, it would never have seen the light of
>> day. We'd still be sat here, with a 5 year old site, moaning about it.
>> Because everyone thinks they know how to design, and everyone has an
>> opinion, and the thing would've been debated until it was killed.
>> You can imagine how much I flinched when I read this: "Does anyone think it
>> would be a good idea to list the proposed changes/issues to/with the site
>> and then have the community vote on them?"
>> Not picking on you here Jonathan, but it's a good example of what I am
>> talking about.
>> Voting on the design of the site is probably THE worst idea possible.
> So. I never suggested that.
> To be honest I don't care about the color, I don't care about the font
> used. I don't care to have a pretty website or not. I'm not sure I
> like that one. It's trendy for sure. Not my problem here either.
> What I care on the other hand, is about the content, and the
> information in. What could have been discussed, and may be fixed in
> the future is which information is important. Who are we targeting.
> There was some mails about that on the ml sometimes ago without real
> decision on that.  Again I'm not talking about a vote or whatever. At
> the end someone has to take a decision. The one that took the lead for
> any reason. I'm pretty sure the website will need some edits (and
> again i'm not speaking about design) in near future following recent
> discussions. But it wasn't the topic of my mails.
> What I care now, is that i'm not inclined to use the site because I
> don't find the information easily like I used too. And I've found the
> same feedback from some persons around. I listed the points
> previously. I'm now worried that we can't even suggest something is
> wrong. It looks like it for sure.
> Trust? `Trust` works in both way. And if you don't trust someone
> enough to think you can't discuss about that thing, there is a
> problem. I personally trust you even if we never met and others in the
> team. ANd pretty sure that we all know where to stop between
> bikesheeding and the rest. Am I right, dunno. That's it.
> Now to list my issues with the website:
> - easy access to the support (tickets)
> - reading the text is difficult
> - making some links more obvious: mailing list web browsing

+1 on these changes.

> If I'm the only one to find issues about that fine. I will try to
> bookmark the links I need even if I dislike to work that way.
> - benoît

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