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From Wendall Cada <>
Subject Re: website & jira
Date Mon, 16 Apr 2012 19:14:09 GMT
I don't know if you guys care about my feedback, but I also do this 
stuff for a living. I've added my comments below.

On 04/16/2012 10:35 AM, Noah Slater wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 6:26 PM, Benoit Chesneau<>wrote:
>> On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 7:13 PM, Noah Slater<>  wrote:
>>> On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 5:04 PM, Benoit Chesneau<
>>> wrote:
>>>> On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 10:45 PM, Noah Slater<>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Benoît:
>>>>> Please don't add anything to the top navigation. The only thing I
>> think
>>>> we
>>>>> should add there is a link to the "Quick Links" section - but I
>> already
>>>>> tried that and the auto-scrolling breaks. If you can figure out a way
>> to
>>>>> make it not break, please add that.
>>>> Well why not about a context menu?
>>> What?
>> here a menu that culd appear when you click on a top navigation link.
> Okay. No, I don't think we should have one of those.
Agreed, these are problematic for touch devices. It's doable, but a 
royal pain in the ass.
>>>>> Bob:
>>>>> We link to the documentation in the Quick Links footer. The
>> documentation
>>>>> itself includes the API reference. I don't think there's any
>> particular
>>>>> need to link to the API reference on the page as a special call out.
>>>>> Benoît:
>>>>> I agree that I think the text is very big, but it's the only way we
>> could
>>>>> get it looking good with the text stretched across the whole screen.
>>>>> Perhaps the thing to do is to shorten the width of the text some how.
>> We
>>>>> need a designer to look at it.
>>>> Why the text has to be stretched across the whole screen? It looks
>>>> good but it's actually really painful to read it.
>>> Yes, I'm not sure what to do about it.
>>> We need a designer to look at it.
>> i would first reduce the width to 40em (common width on desktop) and
>> the font size to something human readable then look at a designer to
>> make eventually things looking better (wich is far less important than
>> readability). I can do that quickly if anyone is OK.
> I want a designer to look at this. It is readable enough that we don't have
> to take any emergency action. I am happy to wait for this to be picked up
> as CouchDB re-organises itself.
The font size is perfect. Smaller, and I'll override locally to actually 
be able to read it. I have 20/20 vision, this size works for everything 
for me from my primary 24" monitor to my android phone. This is a bit 
wide for readability. For reference In regard to the font size 
on the readability link, I set text size to 120% by default, as it is 
far too small. This makes it exactly the same size as the default for 
couchdb landing page.
>>>> The links to the web interface for the mailing list are there. Click on
>>>> the
>>>>> mailing list names themselves.
>>>> Hard time to figure I had to click on the link. That's not intuitive.
>>> Intuition is relative.
>> Do you mean we should encourage people to try all the link before
>> finding the right content behind? None of these links clearly tell to
>> the user that it links to a web interface.
> I disagree. I think the links are very clear.
>>>> Also I don't find the markmail link.
>>> Markmail is not official.
>> But it was there and useful.
> So put it on the wiki.
> This site is about the bare essential facts about CouchDB.
> Let's keep it simple.
>>> Not convinced this is a big deal. How many people use the web interface
>> to
>>> our mailing lists by clicking on a link, and then browsing by date? I am
>>> willing to bet it is only me, when totting up vote.
>> Or any people that want to link to a discussion on others media.
> Again, I think it's clear.
> We can add clarification to the wiki if it turns out not to be clear.
> (Which we will hear about.)
>>>>> I don't think we need JIRA in the top level nav. We have it in the
>> Quick
>>>>> Links section.
>>>> Quick link section is on the bottom. When I just want to put a ticket
>>>> I want to make it fast. That should be on top imo and really visible
>>>> for all. Its as important as "Download" is and probably more important
>>>> than the mailing lists.
>>> I think that the next step forward is to add a Quick Links header
>>> navigation element that would allow you to scroll to the bottom of the
>>> page. If anyone can get this working properly, please contribute it.
>> Why do i have to scroll to the bottom to find a really important link.
> Because that is the way the page is designed.
>> Opening tickets is a way to encourage people to contribute. It is also
>> the way we provide support. It really *must* be part of the top
>> navigation.
> I agree. We want people to contribute. But I don't think we should have a
> link to JIRA in the top of the navigation. At the moment, that area of the
> page serves as in-page navigation only. I would like to keep it like that.
> I appreciate that you do not want to keep it like that. But the plural of
> anecdote is not data. That is, we have two opinions. It is yet to be seen
> if people have a problem finding JIRA. If it is so important to YOU, you
> should have a book mark for JIRA. I am not convinced that regular users of
> CouchDB are going to come to this page and think "OMG WHERE CAN I REPORT
> BUGS?" Maybe I am wrong, and maybe this will happen. But I want to wait and
> see, and get a better feel for how this design is received before we make
> any rash changes.
JIRA is a critical link, and was a pain to find before, and even worse 
now. I either search for it, or url bar search for an old ticket in my 
browser history and navigate JIRA from there. Really, really 
fundamentally broken for anyone wanting to contribute. Do not bury the 
tracker please. It's arguably more important than the wiki.

Also, really nobody knows what the hell JIRA is. In fact, couchdb is the 
only software I use that I even see this on, even apache uses Bugzilla. 
I know it's popular in some circles, but the name JIRA is meaningless. 
If I say Bugzilla, at least I can derive some meaning out of the name. 
JIRA ... what the hell does that even mean. If is an issue tracker, then 
call it "Issues". What the underlying software is is meaningless. Even 
worse if the name doesn't convey any meaning.

Bottom line for me, regardless if the link actually goes somewhere or 
has a section of the page that links to it, dropping the JIRA name in 
favor of something meaningful would be more practical.


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