From dev-return-21482-apmail-couchdb-dev-archive=couchdb.apache.org@couchdb.apache.org Thu Mar 15 11:54:39 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: apmail-couchdb-dev-archive@www.apache.org Delivered-To: apmail-couchdb-dev-archive@www.apache.org Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by minotaur.apache.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5497498E2 for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2012 11:54:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 98365 invoked by uid 500); 15 Mar 2012 11:54:38 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-couchdb-dev-archive@couchdb.apache.org Received: (qmail 98290 invoked by uid 500); 15 Mar 2012 11:54:38 -0000 Mailing-List: contact dev-help@couchdb.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: dev@couchdb.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list dev@couchdb.apache.org Delivered-To: moderator for dev@couchdb.apache.org Received: (qmail 52850 invoked by uid 99); 15 Mar 2012 11:07:07 -0000 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0 tests=RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_NEUTRAL X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: neutral (nike.apache.org: local policy) Message-ID: <4F61CD39.7060004@shanecurcuru.org> Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 07:06:33 -0400 From: Shane Curcuru User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jan Lehnardt , dev@couchdb.apache.org CC: trademarks@apache.org Subject: Re: Seeking CouchDB guidance References: <4F5EC423.2070101@shanecurcuru.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:Zknb2gnPwXNZFDgH1JyuaNGilFIrYJR/vMAGfOUpCMA KR/vXxm1PJqhPkSIuJXqAzh1XWmoa+VKwV9yUrTnaBQSxeYoYH agHFp7MT7T4+HMC1enx0p9dLKQ4y16SAGfWIgH6aYrJHx4X21b do6ErB50X2i+bDJqHdVI7X48PYHu9J6c3UfW5tok0rXy8a9EA3 F++kp0BBRdTJ3/7ZKmhiFNEJTYQIWbPx7zN8x1AoKSo+CRA4qY V/+Vi+JL1QrAlCjnwX6WY3FmHlbWqYUqnM+tmnq8Jeak3gQY6/ ZHqgsdClmzz1ex3OUtyjHRLbc86taHXBlFqkKa6UYsPppoLaL4 /1mTsIWA5vJrta8jD1n97ovnLylEcDp/+SKLfc/HW X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org A couple of specific comments below: On 2012-03-13 2:57 PM, Jan Lehnardt wrote: ... >> One key item would be improving the couchdb.a.o website, in >> particular so that it better describes what CouchDB is and how to >> use it to *newcomers* to the technology. Separately, I bet it >> would be helpful for committers (and others) to blog and post about >> CouchDB individually, both to explain why CouchDB is so great, and >> also to explain that there's only one Apache CouchDB, and all the >> other Couches are less (or more) related to us, the first >> Couch-named No-SQL db. > > [Apache CouchDB hat]: That's very good advice. For a while now I > longed for a page that explains the CouchDB ecosystem in a nutshell. > I have personally not gotten to it, but I'd love to see a page that > is a brief introduction into all the players that make up the greater > CouchDB ecosystem with Apache CouchDB at its centre. It could be as > simple as starting with a list on our wiki. We have a DRAFT set of best practices for this kind of page: http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/linking.html The point is that projects should feel free to add such pages, while making sure that they don't turn into advertisements for other organizations. Also, making sure that it is an equitable and clear list that helps our Apache project's users, not just the third party organizations. ... > [Couchbase hat]: I'll follow up with a report on changes that we made > to our website when they are implemented. Please allow a number of > days. If the PMC agrees, I'll use this thread instead of the private@ > mailing list to send the update. If the PMC prefers, I can take it to > private@ directly, though. If the PMC has additional requests for us, > please get in touch privately at jan@couchbase.com. Given that we're already talking about this on dev@ in public, it's better to keep the conversation in public. More eyes, more ideas - and less chance that someone tries to assume or imply that anyone's playing politics. Note that in terms of trademark enforcement, there are many cases that *start* out with private discussions. This is most often for two reasons: First, if it's a PMC member or trademarks@ person bringing the matter up for the first time, we usually make first contact a third party saying "Hey, please change X" in private. In the majority of the cases, this allows the third party to privately say "Whoops, you're right, we'll fix it!" without losing face, and without a larger mail thread causing misunderstandings. For the majority of third parties who are happy to comply, this works better at first. Second, sometimes we have third parties who approach us with trademark questions privately - perhaps about ideas for their new product names or the like. In this case, we need to respect their request for privacy presuming that the question gets sorted out properly. Oh - and trademark enforcement is a process. So now that we have a good response from the third party (i.e. Jan notes some specifics that Couchbase is working on improving), it's fine if the process takes several days or even a few weeks. Unless there's some egregious trademark infringement - like refusing to recognize a mark or explicitly using a bare mark improperly - the point is getting a good overall result. >> - The PMC should also update the couchdb.a.o website to ensure >> we're properly attributing our own marks. Please update the >> trademark attribution in the footer to include: >> >> Apache CouchDB, CouchDB, Apache and the CouchDB logo are trademarks >> of the Apache Software Foundation. >> >> See: http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/pmcs#attributions > > [Apache CouchDB hat]: The footer currently says: '“Apache CouchDB” > and the Project logo are trademarks of the Apache Software Foundation > — Copyright © 2008–2011 The Apache Software Foundation' Aside from > the year that we should definitely fix, we only need to add "CouchDB" > to the list, is that correct? Add "Apache" as well, since it's also an important trademark for the ASF as a whole as well as for our projects. > > Thanks again Shane! I trust we can drive that to a amicable > conclusion now. > > Cheers Jan Indeed, I'm confident we can too, with a little patience and good ideas from the whole PMC. Thanks! - Shane