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From Shane Curcuru <>
Subject Re: Seeking CouchDB guidance
Date Thu, 15 Mar 2012 11:06:33 GMT
A couple of specific comments below:

On 2012-03-13 2:57 PM, Jan Lehnardt wrote:

>> One key item would be improving the couchdb.a.o website, in
>> particular so that it better describes what CouchDB is and how to
>> use it to *newcomers* to the technology.  Separately, I bet it
>> would be helpful for committers (and others) to blog and post about
>> CouchDB individually, both to explain why CouchDB is so great, and
>> also to explain that there's only one Apache CouchDB, and all the
>> other Couches are less (or more) related to us, the first
>> Couch-named No-SQL db.
> [Apache CouchDB hat]: That's very good advice. For a while now I
> longed for a page that explains the CouchDB ecosystem in a nutshell.
> I have personally not gotten to it, but I'd love to see a page that
> is a brief introduction into all the players that make up the greater
> CouchDB ecosystem with Apache CouchDB at its centre. It could be as
> simple as starting with a list on our wiki.

We have a DRAFT set of best practices for this kind of page:

The point is that projects should feel free to add such pages, while 
making sure that they don't turn into advertisements for other 
organizations.  Also, making sure that it is an equitable and clear list 
that helps our Apache project's users, not just the third party 


> [Couchbase hat]: I'll follow up with a report on changes that we made
> to our website when they are implemented. Please allow a number of
> days. If the PMC agrees, I'll use this thread instead of the private@
> mailing list to send the update. If the PMC prefers, I can take it to
> private@ directly, though. If the PMC has additional requests for us,
> please get in touch privately at

Given that we're already talking about this on dev@ in public, it's 
better to keep the conversation in public.  More eyes, more ideas - and 
less chance that someone tries to assume or imply that anyone's playing 

Note that in terms of trademark enforcement, there are many cases that 
*start* out with private discussions.  This is most often for two reasons:

First, if it's a PMC member or trademarks@ person bringing the matter up 
for the first time, we usually make first contact a third party saying 
"Hey, please change X" in private.  In the majority of the cases, this 
allows the third party to privately say "Whoops, you're right, we'll fix 
it!" without losing face, and without a larger mail thread causing 
misunderstandings.  For the majority of third parties who are happy to 
comply, this works better at first.

Second, sometimes we have third parties who approach us with trademark 
questions privately - perhaps about ideas for their new product names or 
the like.  In this case, we need to respect their request for privacy 
presuming that the question gets sorted out properly.

Oh - and trademark enforcement is a process.  So now that we have a good 
response from the third party (i.e. Jan notes some specifics that 
Couchbase is working on improving), it's fine if the process takes 
several days or even a few weeks.  Unless there's some egregious 
trademark infringement - like refusing to recognize a mark or explicitly 
using a bare mark improperly - the point is getting a good overall result.

>> - The PMC should also update the couchdb.a.o website to ensure
>> we're properly attributing our own marks.  Please update the
>> trademark attribution in the footer to include:
>> Apache CouchDB, CouchDB, Apache and the CouchDB logo are trademarks
>> of the Apache Software Foundation.
>> See:
> [Apache CouchDB hat]: The footer currently says: '“Apache CouchDB”
> and the Project logo are trademarks of the Apache Software Foundation
> — Copyright © 2008–2011 The Apache Software Foundation' Aside from
> the year that we should definitely fix, we only need to add "CouchDB"
> to the list, is that correct?

Add "Apache" as well, since it's also an important trademark for the ASF 
as a whole as well as for our projects.

> Thanks again Shane! I trust we can drive that to a amicable
> conclusion now.
> Cheers Jan

Indeed, I'm confident we can too, with a little patience and good ideas 
from the whole PMC.

- Shane

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