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From Jonathan Porta <rurd...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Any experts care to answer this SO query?
Date Mon, 20 Feb 2012 00:57:19 GMT
No problem.  I hope it wasn't too much of a rant.

It's just that CouchDB is an awesome project, but, I am not sure other
new comers will be as persistent as I have.

Once I wrap up my first CouchDB deployment in a few days, I will
contribute some helpful information to the Wiki.  I have editing
privileges as of yesterday.

If anyone wants to give me word on whether Couchbase Mobile Syncpoint
is the route I should go for Android, I would appreciate it!  Still
trying to figure this out! ;)

Jonathan Porta


On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 2:24 PM, Noah Slater <nslater@tumbolia.org> wrote:
> Thank you for this Jonathan, it has been very helpful for me. I've flagged
> the email and I'll review it again when I'm putting together a plan for the
> new website.
>
> The wiki, as always, could do with some love. If you have a bit of spare
> time, it would be cool if you could fix up any of the things you think are
> confusing. Just let me know your account and I'll give you edit access.
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 6:45 PM, Jonathan Porta <rurd4me@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Roger, thanks for posting that!
>>
>> Being new to this community, I have spent more time confused than any
>> other time I have picked up a new technology.  The confusion primary
>> stems from the multitude of Couchbase products that everyone talks
>> about, coupled with the fact that (seemingly) all of the online
>> content about CouchDB was written by people who now work at Couchbase.
>>
>> The difference in appeal between Couchbase's website and CouchDB's
>> website is huge.  My initial thoughts were that CouchDB was mostly
>> abandoned as an Apache project, and that Couchbase was leading the
>> charge in further development.  This misconception lead me to wasting
>> a lot of time with Couchbase Server, only to find out that everything
>> I just learned in the two O'Reilly books I just bought was mostly
>> wrong, as it did not apply to CouchDB.  Basically, Couchbase Server is
>> Membase with a confusing name.
>>
>> Recovering from that mistake, I then stumble across Damien's blog post
>> about "The future of CouchDB: Couchbase".  At this point, I am ready
>> to give up.  I have spent days trying to figure out a new technology
>> that sounds incredible, but, I have not had any success.
>>
>> To further show how hard it was to get to where I am now, here is how
>> I started down this road:
>>
>> I easily found this talk done by J. Chris Anderson:
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9C2x54Of-M
>>
>> This got me pretty excited about the mobile CouchDB offering, yet, I
>> couldn't find much more information until I just Googled "J. Chris
>> Anderson CouchDB".  This is how I discovered Couchbase, the company.
>> Seeing that J. Chris works there, I assumed Couchbase Server was a
>> distribution of CouchDB.  I was wrong.  In the past when I have had
>> issues like this, it is usually cleared up by reading through the
>> Wikipedia articles on the subject.  As of the last time I checked, the
>> articles on Wikipedia were not very helpful in understanding the
>> differences between Couchone, Couchbase, CouchDB, CouchApp, Couchbase
>> Single Server, Couchbase Mobile Syncpoint, etc.
>>
>> Here is the internal dialog going on in my head:
>>
>> I finally found what I *think* might be the coveted CouchDB Android:
>> http://www.couchbase.com/wiki/display/couchbase/Couchbase+Mobile+Syncpoint
>>
>> Stop right there!  There are two different products on that page?
>> Couchbase Mobile Syncpoint and TouchDB.
>>
>> TouchDB sounds like it is even further away from CouchDB, so I am not
>> going to look at that.  At least the Couchbase Mobile Syncpoint has
>> the word Couch in it, so, maybe that is what I want?  Though, I just
>> wasted a bunch of time with Couchbase Server, so I am a little weary
>> of looking at something with the Couchbase name stuck on it.  I know
>> it doesn't work with CouchDB, and doesn't have a REST API.  Again, I
>> was wrong!  I guess Couchbase Mobile Syncpoint is compatible with
>> CouchDB, according to the Couchbase HTTP API Documentation (Am I
>> missing the joke here?)
>>
>> I end up on this page:
>> http://www.couchbase.com/wiki/display/couchbase/Android - All is going
>> well until I see "Couchbase HTTP API Reference" -
>> http://www.couchbase.com/docs/couchbase-api/index.html - Couchbase
>> doesn't have an HTTP API...I click that link.  The title says:
>> "Couchbase", yet, the rest of the document says "CouchDB"  It's like a
>> case of find+replace gone wrong.  So... Is this the API for Couchbase,
>> CouchDB, or Couchbase Mobile Syncpoint?  Where is the API for
>> Couchbase Mobile Syncpoint, that was, after all, the product page I
>> was just on.  The document never mentions Syncpoint.
>>
>> The CouchDB Wiki isn't much help either.  Here is the first thing I
>> see on the Android page: "These instructions are outdated"  So, I
>> follow the link -
>> https://github.com/couchbase/Android-Couchbase-SourceBuild - there are
>> no instructions on how to use this.  No links to instructions.  At
>> this point, I am starting to think that maybe everyone just gave up on
>> the Android port.  Why can I find loads of posts, videos, etc from
>> 2010 talking about how awesome CouchDB Mobile will be, but nothing in
>> recent months?  Yep, CouchDB on Android must be dead.
>>
>> I keep searching and eventually find a link to this page:
>> http://www.couchbase.com/products-and-services/mobile-couchbase.
>> Unfortunately, both the links to the mobile versions are broken.  It
>> just takes me to the homepage.  At this point, I posted the
>> aforementioned SO question.
>>
>> Other Issues that may or may not dissuade a newcomer:
>> - The Fedora package in the Repo is version 1.0.2-7
>> - Downloads page does not indicate what you are downloading...source
>> or binary? It's source, but I had to download the tar file to know for
>> sure.
>> - Binaries would be nice to offer, especially for Windows.
>> - The Wiki could benefit from some serious TLC.  Do we really need a
>> build guide for every OS?  It seems that maintaining two or three
>> always up-to-date build/install guides would be more beneficial than
>> lots of guides that may or may not be up-to-date.
>> - The CouchDB homepage needs an attention grabbing...something, to
>> showcase to potential developers why CouchDB is awesome.  Redis and
>> Node.js seem to do a better job at this, maybe some ideas can come
>> from their approach.
>>
>> </rant>
>>
>> It all boils down to:
>>
>> 1.  How can I incorporate CouchDB into my Android project, and
>> replicate with a CouchDB instance elsewhere?
>>
>> 2.  What can I do to help CouchDB make things easier for someone like
>> me to adopt CouchDB?  More specifically, what is there that the
>> project team would allow me to help with in this area?
>>
>> I really really like the CouchDB project, but, I can't see how it will
>> continue to be a viable solution if newcomers to the technology
>> encounter issues similar to what I have encountered.
>>
>>
>> Jonathan Porta
>>
>> PO BOX 21365
>> Billings, MT 59104
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 9:58 AM,  <roger.moffatt@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > I think this question on stack overflow expresses a lot of the
>> > confusion in the marketplace about the current direction of couchdb. I
>> > hope you'll forgive me posting this to the dev group, but as a couch
>> > evangelist myself, I share Jonathan's pain.
>> >
>> >
>> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9343868/confused-on-how-to-use-couchdb-on-android
>> >
>> > I am feeling a bit more confident about the future of couchdb having
>> > seen the activity in this forum over the past week. However I feel,
>> > looking from the outside in, that the project does have a perception
>> > problem.
>> >
>> > The problem I think largely stems from the fact that there is nothing
>> > on this page that reflects the online discussions that arose following
>> > Damien's departure.
>> >
>> > http://couchdb.apache.org/
>> >
>> > So when you are searching for information on couchdb, you tend to see
>> > a very stale project page, and then lots of much more recent online
>> > posts elsewhere asking if couch is dead now that the founder has left.
>> >
>> > I know there is a lot of sensible and sane discussion on other blogs,
>> > but I really feel that the apache couchdb pages need to address the
>> > matter head on and inform the community better as to the future.
>> >
>> > As an aside, the decision to rebrand membase as couchbase has, in my
>> > opinion, done untold damage. This is the real issue behind the
>> > confusion and is something I think the couchdb project needs to work
>> > on.
>> >
>> > I'm happy to help where I can ... I love couch and use it as the
>> > backend for many of my mobile projects. Having a restful database that
>> > talks JSON is such a perfect fit for so many applications that really,
>> > couchdb should be storming ahead of other nosql options and yet I find
>> > myself having to work harder and harder to justify its use over (say)
>> > mongo. The reason I am having to work harder is purely a perception
>> > problem and hence I feel this is the area that needs a bit more work!
>> >
>> > All that said, I'm so glad I joined the dev group last week, it's
>> > given me a lot more confidence that things are moving in a positive
>> > direction ...
>> >
>> > Roger
>>

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