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From Noah Slater <>
Subject Re: Any experts care to answer this SO query?
Date Sun, 19 Feb 2012 21:24:42 GMT
Thank you for this Jonathan, it has been very helpful for me. I've flagged
the email and I'll review it again when I'm putting together a plan for the
new website.

The wiki, as always, could do with some love. If you have a bit of spare
time, it would be cool if you could fix up any of the things you think are
confusing. Just let me know your account and I'll give you edit access.

On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 6:45 PM, Jonathan Porta <> wrote:

> Roger, thanks for posting that!
> Being new to this community, I have spent more time confused than any
> other time I have picked up a new technology.  The confusion primary
> stems from the multitude of Couchbase products that everyone talks
> about, coupled with the fact that (seemingly) all of the online
> content about CouchDB was written by people who now work at Couchbase.
> The difference in appeal between Couchbase's website and CouchDB's
> website is huge.  My initial thoughts were that CouchDB was mostly
> abandoned as an Apache project, and that Couchbase was leading the
> charge in further development.  This misconception lead me to wasting
> a lot of time with Couchbase Server, only to find out that everything
> I just learned in the two O'Reilly books I just bought was mostly
> wrong, as it did not apply to CouchDB.  Basically, Couchbase Server is
> Membase with a confusing name.
> Recovering from that mistake, I then stumble across Damien's blog post
> about "The future of CouchDB: Couchbase".  At this point, I am ready
> to give up.  I have spent days trying to figure out a new technology
> that sounds incredible, but, I have not had any success.
> To further show how hard it was to get to where I am now, here is how
> I started down this road:
> I easily found this talk done by J. Chris Anderson:
> This got me pretty excited about the mobile CouchDB offering, yet, I
> couldn't find much more information until I just Googled "J. Chris
> Anderson CouchDB".  This is how I discovered Couchbase, the company.
> Seeing that J. Chris works there, I assumed Couchbase Server was a
> distribution of CouchDB.  I was wrong.  In the past when I have had
> issues like this, it is usually cleared up by reading through the
> Wikipedia articles on the subject.  As of the last time I checked, the
> articles on Wikipedia were not very helpful in understanding the
> differences between Couchone, Couchbase, CouchDB, CouchApp, Couchbase
> Single Server, Couchbase Mobile Syncpoint, etc.
> Here is the internal dialog going on in my head:
> I finally found what I *think* might be the coveted CouchDB Android:
> Stop right there!  There are two different products on that page?
> Couchbase Mobile Syncpoint and TouchDB.
> TouchDB sounds like it is even further away from CouchDB, so I am not
> going to look at that.  At least the Couchbase Mobile Syncpoint has
> the word Couch in it, so, maybe that is what I want?  Though, I just
> wasted a bunch of time with Couchbase Server, so I am a little weary
> of looking at something with the Couchbase name stuck on it.  I know
> it doesn't work with CouchDB, and doesn't have a REST API.  Again, I
> was wrong!  I guess Couchbase Mobile Syncpoint is compatible with
> CouchDB, according to the Couchbase HTTP API Documentation (Am I
> missing the joke here?)
> I end up on this page:
> - All is going
> well until I see "Couchbase HTTP API Reference" -
> - Couchbase
> doesn't have an HTTP API...I click that link.  The title says:
> "Couchbase", yet, the rest of the document says "CouchDB"  It's like a
> case of find+replace gone wrong.  So... Is this the API for Couchbase,
> CouchDB, or Couchbase Mobile Syncpoint?  Where is the API for
> Couchbase Mobile Syncpoint, that was, after all, the product page I
> was just on.  The document never mentions Syncpoint.
> The CouchDB Wiki isn't much help either.  Here is the first thing I
> see on the Android page: "These instructions are outdated"  So, I
> follow the link -
> - there are
> no instructions on how to use this.  No links to instructions.  At
> this point, I am starting to think that maybe everyone just gave up on
> the Android port.  Why can I find loads of posts, videos, etc from
> 2010 talking about how awesome CouchDB Mobile will be, but nothing in
> recent months?  Yep, CouchDB on Android must be dead.
> I keep searching and eventually find a link to this page:
> Unfortunately, both the links to the mobile versions are broken.  It
> just takes me to the homepage.  At this point, I posted the
> aforementioned SO question.
> Other Issues that may or may not dissuade a newcomer:
> - The Fedora package in the Repo is version 1.0.2-7
> - Downloads page does not indicate what you are downloading...source
> or binary? It's source, but I had to download the tar file to know for
> sure.
> - Binaries would be nice to offer, especially for Windows.
> - The Wiki could benefit from some serious TLC.  Do we really need a
> build guide for every OS?  It seems that maintaining two or three
> always up-to-date build/install guides would be more beneficial than
> lots of guides that may or may not be up-to-date.
> - The CouchDB homepage needs an attention grabbing...something, to
> showcase to potential developers why CouchDB is awesome.  Redis and
> Node.js seem to do a better job at this, maybe some ideas can come
> from their approach.
> </rant>
> It all boils down to:
> 1.  How can I incorporate CouchDB into my Android project, and
> replicate with a CouchDB instance elsewhere?
> 2.  What can I do to help CouchDB make things easier for someone like
> me to adopt CouchDB?  More specifically, what is there that the
> project team would allow me to help with in this area?
> I really really like the CouchDB project, but, I can't see how it will
> continue to be a viable solution if newcomers to the technology
> encounter issues similar to what I have encountered.
> Jonathan Porta
> PO BOX 21365
> Billings, MT 59104
> On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 9:58 AM,  <> wrote:
> > I think this question on stack overflow expresses a lot of the
> > confusion in the marketplace about the current direction of couchdb. I
> > hope you'll forgive me posting this to the dev group, but as a couch
> > evangelist myself, I share Jonathan's pain.
> >
> >
> >
> > I am feeling a bit more confident about the future of couchdb having
> > seen the activity in this forum over the past week. However I feel,
> > looking from the outside in, that the project does have a perception
> > problem.
> >
> > The problem I think largely stems from the fact that there is nothing
> > on this page that reflects the online discussions that arose following
> > Damien's departure.
> >
> >
> >
> > So when you are searching for information on couchdb, you tend to see
> > a very stale project page, and then lots of much more recent online
> > posts elsewhere asking if couch is dead now that the founder has left.
> >
> > I know there is a lot of sensible and sane discussion on other blogs,
> > but I really feel that the apache couchdb pages need to address the
> > matter head on and inform the community better as to the future.
> >
> > As an aside, the decision to rebrand membase as couchbase has, in my
> > opinion, done untold damage. This is the real issue behind the
> > confusion and is something I think the couchdb project needs to work
> > on.
> >
> > I'm happy to help where I can ... I love couch and use it as the
> > backend for many of my mobile projects. Having a restful database that
> > talks JSON is such a perfect fit for so many applications that really,
> > couchdb should be storming ahead of other nosql options and yet I find
> > myself having to work harder and harder to justify its use over (say)
> > mongo. The reason I am having to work harder is purely a perception
> > problem and hence I feel this is the area that needs a bit more work!
> >
> > All that said, I'm so glad I joined the dev group last week, it's
> > given me a lot more confidence that things are moving in a positive
> > direction ...
> >
> > Roger

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