couchdb-dev mailing list archives

Site index · List index
Message view « Date » · « Thread »
Top « Date » · « Thread »
From Damien Katz <>
Subject Re: [jira] [Commented] (COUCHDB-1367) When settings revs_limit on db - the db increases its update_seq counter when viewing stats - but not when getting changes
Date Thu, 29 Dec 2011 01:02:35 GMT

On Dec 28, 2011, at 4:21 PM, Jason Smith wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 1:44 AM, Randall Leeds <> wrote:
>> On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 22:37, Jason Smith <> wrote:
>>> On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 9:38 AM, Randall Leeds <>
>>>> On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 05:22, Jason Smith <> wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 5:04 AM, Randall Leeds <>
>>> Your idea improves consistency and orthogonality. It also solves the
>>> problem of how to enumerate _local docs. (AFAIK there is no way to
>>> list them all, not via _all_docs, or _changes, or a view).
>>> But it doesn't solve the larger problem: How to follow a _changes feed
>>> and know when you have caught up. Both Bob N. and I independently did
>>> the following for our projects:
>>> 1. GET /db and wrongly assume update_seq will appear in the changes feed
>>> 2. GET /db/_changes?feed=continuous
>>> 3. Break when a change has .seq >= update_seq
>>> Suppose you have step 0: Update _security or _revs_limit. The loop
>>> will never break.
>>> You propose (WLOG) _changes?comprehensive=true which guarantees a
>>> change equal or greater than update_seq. That's cool, but IMO app
>>> developers now have to add code to ignore irrelevant changes like
>>> those containing replication checkpoints.
>> All great points.
>>> I propose (WLOG) update_sikh in the db header which is the seq id of
>>> the latest *document* update. App developers modify their step 1 to
>>> use update_sikh instead of update_seq.
>>> Is that an accurate synopsis?
>> Yes. If we decide to go this route I would rather see _revs_limit and
>> _security stop bumping update_seq because I find it confusing that
>> update_seq is then not directly related to the by_seq tree.
> "update_seq is not directly related to the by_seq tree." That is a
> very powerful observation. My idea has less orthogonality and
> conceptual simplicity.
> The only mystery is why update_seq did this in the first place. Did
> Damien have a reason, from hard-won experience?

I wanted to give an easy way to monitor other changes to the database header, for things like
automated backup and admin tool UIs, though I don't know if anything uses it. It was easiest
to do it this way, and I ddn't think about the problems it might cause with users expecting
it to correspond with the by_seq index. With all the confusion it's caused, I'd be fine with
taking it out. Or maybe put in a db version_seq header, that's like a changes feed but for
all types of updates to the db.

>> The one exception raised so far is your observation that
>> it may be useful for doing backups. However, if that's the only real
>> exception, perhaps we should surface some other thing more directly
>> analogous to the UNIX crime.
> Meh, the backups argument is okay, but weak. If you depend on it,
> you'll miss _local docs (replication checkpoints, so that's no small
> error). You still have to back up .ini files, and perhaps logs and
> view files. So my suggestion for Unix crime is just that: OS
> timestamps.
> -- 
> Iris Couch

View raw message