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From Paul Davis <>
Subject Re: CouchDB Wiki / Documentation
Date Fri, 05 Mar 2010 20:34:12 GMT
On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 3:08 PM, Noah Slater <> wrote:
> This should be on dev@ I think, so moving there.
> Please remove user@ from the address in your replies to this message.
> On 5 Mar 2010, at 19:36, Sebastian Cohnen wrote:
>> but back to topic: MoinMoin sucks! It's unbelievably slow, throws 500s all the time
and don't forget the syntax - pure hell when you seriously want to work with it. I've talked
with Jan and he has been recently thinking of a replacement.
> From an old blog post:
> We were discussing Apache infrastructure, and I was joking about how much I hated JIRA.
Robert Newson suggested that having to pick between JIRA and Bugzilla was Hobson's choice,
 but I countered with Sophie's choice, and his riposte was Morton's fork. When we were cautioned
to avoid Buridan's ass, I commented "that's what she said!"
>> As a first step we want to suggest using Markdown
> Just use HTML, it is way simpler.
>> and git from now on - at least for documentation purposes
>> Once we (or better I) have enough translated from MoinMoin to Markdown we could start
linking from the wiki to Github (as it renders markdown nicely for you).
> Nice idea, but absolutely not.
> Official project documentation should be on and the wiki must be on
apache infrastructure. Unofficial stuff, like our O'Reilly book, is fine elsewhere, but that's
all it can be - as far as I understand the situation.
>> We think that this approach is likely to work best as an interim solution before
we have a ass-kickin' couch-wiki solution. Once that's done, we can easily import the markdown
stuff. or maybe markdown+git works so well, so that it stays the preferred way - who knows?
> Avoid Markdown! It solves nothing and introduces problems.
>> This is only a suggestion and we really want your opinion. I think the rudimental
requirements are quite clear:
>> * a faster and more reliable system
>> * very easy to contribute
>> * easy and easy to learn syntax
>> * being able to work offline (at least for me that would be awesome)
>> * easy way to do some QA
> Whatever we choose must run on ASF infrastructure if it is to be considered official.

To me, "official" isn't really that important. If a group comes along
and writes better documentation than the wiki, are we going to tell
people that they can't read them?

MoinMoin is painful currently. At its best it was barely tolerable. If
someone started an external doc project I'd probably never touch
MoinMoin again.

As far as I've read, there's nothing that would prevent us from
hosting a static copy of some externally developed documentation. What
is prohibited is that we can't included them as part of a release
tarball or store them in the SVN repository but both of these
restrictions also apply to MoinMoin content as well.

Paul Davis

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