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From Mark Hammond <skippy.hamm...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: (lack of) couchdb windows binaries
Date Tue, 30 Mar 2010 00:58:58 GMT
On 30/03/2010 10:44 AM, Noah Slater wrote:
>
> On 30 Mar 2010, at 00:15, Mark Hammond wrote:
>
>> * The test suite does not pass on Windows due to issues compacting
>> and deleting databases and views.  There was a suggestion we can't
>> have an "official" release where the tests fail.  While a fix for
>> this is in the pipeline, it isn't in 0.11.  While this has been
>> true since 0.10 and all throughout the earlier discussions about an
>> official Windows release, it appears to now be a show-stopper.
>
> The test suite forms a contract between ourselves, and our users. If
> they are failing, then they are largely useless for that purpose. I
> regard failing tests to be blockers for the release. If that means
> that we remove a test until we can get it to pass, then so be it.

I understand that - however, the Windows issues are well known, have 
existed forever and has never before been raised as a blocker for a 
windows binary.  If I knew it would be considered as such I would not 
have invested any further efforts in Windows binaries until the windows 
issues were resolved.

>> * I was on 10 days vacation recently.  Even though the 0.11 release
>> process took many weeks, I was in email contact for the entire time
>> and I returned from vacation the same day the vote results were
>> announced, it was felt that this was enough to cause Windows to be
>> dropped from the 0.11 voting procedure.  Given the delays already
>> encountered in this release, I'm disappointed this position was
>> taken, but cest-la-vie.
>
> Delays should not beget delays.

Sure - although IIRC over a week of delay was related to ensuring the 
readme for the release treated Windows as a supported platform, so an 
extra day or 2 to actually make it supported sounds reasonable (or that 
week of delay for this purpose was unnecessary, especially given 0.10 
was released with those issues still existing).

Something seems quite back-to-front here procedurally - many days of 
delays could have been avoided if Windows was not to be supported in 
this release, however a single day of delay then caused Windows to miss 
the boat.

> I felt that given the circumstances, 0.11 could be the release that
> lets Windows support "simmer" in the wild.

I don't quite see how that can happen without a 0.11 binary.  If anyone 
thinks most Windows users will be capable and willing to build couchdb 
from source they are (IMO) mistaken - witness the number of users who 
say they only started using couchdb since Windows binaries became 
available vs the number of people reporting they have build couch from 
source on Windows.

> You will notice that the
> documentation included now mentions Windows as a first class platform
> for the software. There are a number of issues with the Windows build
> that ideally need fixing, and I created a ticket for one of them. It
> is my hope that by the time of the next release, we may be in the
> position to include the Windows binaries.

I'm not quite with you - the release docs indicates it is now a 
first-class platform, but not first-class enough to warrant a build?

>> * The couchdb windows builds includes non ASF binaries - for
>> example, binaries for erlang itself are included, and even though
>> most are built locally as part of the release process, there was a
>> concern about legal issues in providing such binaries.  IANAL and
>> have no desire to play on one TV, so I have no capability of either
>> assessing nor resolving this.
>
> This needs to be brought up on legal. Would you do the honours?

As above, I have no interest in, or knowledge of the issues here, so I 
will leave the honours to someone who does (or at least someone who has 
enough grasp of this to consider it a problem.)

>> I don't think there is anything I can personally do to help resolve
>> any these issues, so I hope someone here can help to get a Windows
>> installer back on track.
>
> It hasn't faltered! This release is the most Windows-y of them all.
> We just have to keep on keeping on! Please check JIRA for Windows
> related bugs, and see how many we can fix before the next release is
> proposed. I have no problem including the Windows binaries, as long
> as legal approves. The timing of your holiday was unfortunate, and as
> I already mentioned, I think a little bit of simmering might help.
> Feel free to advertise the availability in whatever medium you think
> will get the biggest audience. The more eyeballs the better.

Availability of what exactly?  0.11 has been announced to the 
appropriate places already, so it is already getting all the eyeballs it 
needs.  As mentioned above though, eye-balls aren't much good if people 
aren't willing to invest the significant amount of time necessary to 
build from source on Windows.  Simmering needs heat ;)

>> The last issue mentioned is of particular concern to me - if there
>> are any legal issues around this, the same legal issues presumably
>> apply to me personally, which implies it would be prudent for me to
>> stop creating couchdb binary snapshots (and also to remove the old
>> existing ones) until it is resolved.
>
> Bring up the issue on legal, and see what they say.

As above, I'm afraid I must decline due to both time and sanity reasons :)

Don't get me wrong - I'm 100% happy to help the project support Windows 
as a first class platform - I just need support from the project to make 
that happen.

Cheers,

Mark

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