From dev-return-5838-apmail-couchdb-dev-archive=couchdb.apache.org@couchdb.apache.org Fri Aug 14 23:49:36 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: apmail-couchdb-dev-archive@www.apache.org Received: (qmail 5970 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2009 23:49:36 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (140.211.11.3) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 14 Aug 2009 23:49:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 45943 invoked by uid 500); 14 Aug 2009 23:49:42 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-couchdb-dev-archive@couchdb.apache.org Received: (qmail 45861 invoked by uid 500); 14 Aug 2009 23:49:42 -0000 Mailing-List: contact dev-help@couchdb.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: dev@couchdb.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list dev@couchdb.apache.org Received: (qmail 45851 invoked by uid 99); 14 Aug 2009 23:49:42 -0000 Received: from nike.apache.org (HELO nike.apache.org) (192.87.106.230) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Fri, 14 Aug 2009 23:49:42 +0000 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.0 required=10.0 tests=SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (nike.apache.org: domain of jchris@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.177 as permitted sender) Received: from [209.85.212.177] (HELO mail-vw0-f177.google.com) (209.85.212.177) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Fri, 14 Aug 2009 23:49:30 +0000 Received: by vws7 with SMTP id 7so1603991vws.29 for ; Fri, 14 Aug 2009 16:49:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=jW2+TFOhLW5ijsbPOYiXlKmVWHgugbbNCxWGEdTgDyQ=; b=udMR6b7T/hCJfwcF4+WGXL7PLoZJQxkscr20VHXg++yg1WqofA9VfrTJf7wRBmbOzo sCiYbZMCnVxjzeJx2eiPE/G9WrVEcDABgAnKjMyhpmMb6+dNgMpcoWxHYgCtuZKXs60G J0AN19OOUjUzMwZaR/yMWbfcXkjuaE2vaYfU8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=c9qJIi6UOW5hud+9X5LEnWl7EcR6LZLQw7XkwQbU0JisbAkcb8L0J/R71QkBG6TkU/ USis12ExiaGINaqmzYusx23RyAqeUX8epC1yMpPcuTDw66UWj6Iyk+Dkjqzybd064+jw wLSN1Uu7sBZ9FHvbRixRdU0UrsfVyfk1T4v6E= MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: jchris@gmail.com Received: by 10.220.97.212 with SMTP id m20mr2651558vcn.100.1250293748955; Fri, 14 Aug 2009 16:49:08 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20090814233252.GA6563@tumbolia.org> References: <20090814134327.GB31838@tumbolia.org> <20090814171912.GA1119@tumbolia.org> <3915c69d0908141511i280568fane4ab43264e5f4ea4@mail.gmail.com> <20090814221733.GB4324@tumbolia.org> <20090814230121.GC4324@tumbolia.org> <20090814233252.GA6563@tumbolia.org> Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 16:49:08 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 6f4234c9186d4889 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Apache sub-projects From: Chris Anderson To: dev@couchdb.apache.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 4:32 PM, Noah Slater wrote: > On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 04:11:59PM -0700, Chris Anderson wrote: >> It's encouraging that even without explicit code to deal with >> clusters, people have been able to run large reliable clusters. >> CouchDB can only get better at clustering from here. I think it's >> important that in the near-term, the practice of running a 100-node >> CouchDB is well known and easy for people to boot up and run and get >> comfortable with. >> >> On the other hand, we're trying to compress the entire application >> into a few MB so it can run in browsers and smartphones. It's >> legitimate to want to deploy CouchDB in these environments as well. A >> mobile phone has no need to run a hundred-node partitioned cluster of >> CouchDBs. However, there's some awesome stuff it could do if it ran >> the CouchDB we have now. I'm just trying to preserve that option. > > Sure, but I think your original wording polarised the goals of the project. > > Perhaps it would be sufficient to say that we want to build a system that is > flexible enough to be deployed on anything from embedded devices, mobile phones, > workstations, or massively distributed server clusters. > > And on that note, why would we want to keep lounge out of the core? I'm sure we > have enough brains between us to figure out how to package our software so that > it can shrink or expand based on the needs of the local sysadmin. Well I guess I shouldn't have started calling it core. I think what we have now is CouchDB, and it could do to be modularized. I see the project of creating an Erlang Lounge to be a good way to modularize CouchDB. Lounge is already a project with a community and users, and is architecturally compatible. So the idea of bringing it in as a sub-project makes sense, especially in light of what you're saying about shrink and expand, and the Django idea that contrib modules should be removable. I'm probably just being polarizing in my wording because I'm exhausted working up to the move to Berkeley. Anyway, my goals with the whole sub-project thing are at least as much about community as technology. It looks like we have the opportunity to bring in some more people who really understand CouchDB, and at the same time a parallel opportunity to structure our development in a way that increases our flexibility and code quality, so I'm suggesting we take it. It may not be 100% perfect from every conceivable angle, but it seems like a general win-win. Also, I'm totally open to calling Lounge / CouchApp / etc something other than "sub-projects" but the sub-project seems like a known entity in the Apache world, so perhaps it's the most relaxing option. Cheers, Chris > > Best, > > -- > Noah Slater, http://tumbolia.org/nslater > -- Chris Anderson http://jchrisa.net http://couch.io