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From Paul Davis <>
Subject Re: Apache sub-projects
Date Mon, 17 Aug 2009 06:12:48 GMT
Sub-projects are a bad idea.

Been following this thread for awhile without being able to put my
concerns into small sentences. Each time I think about it I think
about how rapidly CouchDB is growing and how much that would hurt
sub-projects that are trying to keep up. And as others have said, we
should make sure that CouchDB doesn't turn into a namespace for

Personally, I think CouchApp should be very frightened of becoming an
ASF project of any sort. My guess is that the stability/agility trade
off is just too serious. I think adding a CouchApp page on would be good, but adding CouchApp traffic
to the bug tracker or mailing lists would make me want to throw twice
as much stuff.

couchdb-lounge should never be a sub-project. Implementing it in
Erlang is going to touch more bits than most people consider. It'll
end up being unavoidable not having it part of the default
distribution. Trying to pull in the entire project as it is and the
replace it piece by piece is not going to work. We should keep it like
it is, a reference implementation that we hope to achieve in the
default CouchDB distribution.

The only project I could even consider being a sub-project is
couchdb-lucene. Though for roughly the same reasons as CouchApp I'd
probably rather see it as a separate project and just include it on
our website ecosystem. Both projects are public-api compatibile and as
others have stated, they'll either stay compatible or die.

And with all that, we're an Alpha (or Beta), pre-1.0 software project.
Now is not the time for adding bureaucracy to release procedures. We
should be focused on removing obstacles to making good software and
adding sub-projects seems like a good way to cause us a crap load of
pain in the future.

Faster not slower.

Paul Davis

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 2:52 AM, Chris Anderson<> wrote:
> Many Apache projects have sub-projects, for two good example see:
> which has 9 sub-projects
> which has 10
> I think one benefit of having sub-projects is broadening the
> community. I think it also helps to give people looking at CouchDB for
> the first time an easier way to see some of the really cool tools and
> libraries it's offers.
> Also, I think it sounds relaxing. Being able to keep an eye on a more
> of the Apache-licensed CouchDB ecosystem in one repository I think
> will result in stronger code.
> I'd like to see a few projects out there become sub-projects, and
> maybe there are others we should include as well. Here's a list of 3:
> The CouchDB-Lounge project provides a CouchDB clustering via a smart
> HTTP proxy. I can see bringing that code in, and using it as a
> scaffold for our Erlang clustering infrastructure. If we do it right,
> deployments will have wide flexibility over which tools to use to
> scale CouchDB, being able to mix, say, CouchDB-Lounge's consistent
> hashing nginx-proxy for document CRUD, but use Erlang view merger or
> other cluster-optimized view engine. If someone is already a heavy
> nginx shop, but doesn't want to merge views in twisted python, they
> could see benefits to a mix and match architecture.
> Informally I asked Kevin Ferguson of CouchDB-Lounge if they'd be
> interested and he said it sounds great.
> CouchApp is a set of scripts to make deploying CouchDB design
> documents easy. I've been involved in it for a while, and Benoit has
> put a lot of time into it. The tool and the JavaScript framework it
> goes with are starting to have a community, and should gain more
> interest when the O'Reilly book goes to press. Benoit Chesneau is
> excited about bringing CouchApp into the CouchDB project.
> CouchDB-Lucene is another good candidate. I haven't asked Robert
> Newson yet what he thinks about it, but I think the project would be a
> good fit.
> There may be more candidates I'm missing, or maybe people will think
> I'm batty for having the idea in the first place... comments welcome.
> Cheers,
> Chris
> --
> Chris Anderson

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