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From Dave butlerdi <>
Subject Re: Introducing CouchDB Ltd.
Date Sun, 08 Mar 2009 20:51:18 GMT
Gianugo's post +1

On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 9:39 PM, Gianugo Rabellino <> wrote:

> On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 9:25 PM, Jan Lehnardt <> wrote:
> >> You are an Apache project and this just seems counter productive.
> >
> > In which way exactly? Getting people paid to advance CouchDB?
> >
> >
> >> I also
> >> think that several other projects have become entailed  of this type of
> >> behaviour and had problems with Apache in the end.
> >
> > We'd love to hear about past experiences so we can try and avoid
> > the same mistakes.
> Jan,
> one of the core values of Apache is its neutrality. Our
> meritocracy-based system is one of a kind, and something that allows
> commercial endeavors to cooperate on neutral grounds. Think what IBM
> did with Tomcat and, later on, Sun did with Derby - you most
> definitely wouldn't have seen IBM cooperating on the "Sun Java Web
> Server", neither the opposite would have worked with "IBM Cloudscape".
> Until not so long ago, one of the requests we used to ask projects in
> order for them to enter the ASF was to change name: that was seen as a
> way to ensure Apache would have been a fresh start on neutral grounds.
> If you are to continue using the CouchDB name in your company, I'm not
> sure what the legal situation would be (it could be argued some
> trademark issues might be there) but, as you can see, you are likely
> to piss people off by sending the message that you are the ones
> "owning" the project which, in Apache terms, is a no-no. You are
> absolutely fine in having commercial objectives and, ultimately, pay
> the bills, but the Wordpress case is not applicable here: Wordpress
> chose to walk on his own legs, hosting their project within their own
> infrastructure and no leverage on existing communities and branding.
> With my ASF hat on, I see this move as potentially harmful, as it
> sends the message that you are leveraging Apache, which requires this
> community to remain meritocratic and neutral, while owning the project
> as you are the core developers.
> Believe me - you are entering muddy waters here as any decision on
> future directions and/or committership is likely to be scrutinized
> anyways as people might and will wonder if you are able to stick to
> community values or if, ultimately, you will be driven by your own
> agendas. There is nothing you can do other than proving your worth -
> which I'm sure you will, but at least you shouldn't make your life
> even more difficult. :)
> Changing a company name is one of the hardest thing to do - I suggest
> you reconsider as soon as possible as it might be too late later down
> the road.
> Thanks,
> --
> Gianugo Rabellino
> Sourcesense, making sense of Open Source:
> (blogging at


Dave Butler

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