Return-Path: Delivered-To: apmail-couchdb-dev-archive@www.apache.org Received: (qmail 99994 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2009 00:29:58 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (140.211.11.2) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 10 Feb 2009 00:29:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 16080 invoked by uid 500); 10 Feb 2009 00:29:57 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-couchdb-dev-archive@couchdb.apache.org Received: (qmail 16041 invoked by uid 500); 10 Feb 2009 00:29:57 -0000 Mailing-List: contact dev-help@couchdb.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: dev@couchdb.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list dev@couchdb.apache.org Received: (qmail 16030 invoked by uid 99); 10 Feb 2009 00:29:57 -0000 Received: from athena.apache.org (HELO athena.apache.org) (140.211.11.136) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Mon, 09 Feb 2009 16:29:57 -0800 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.0 required=10.0 tests=SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (athena.apache.org: domain of antony.blakey@gmail.com designates 209.85.219.12 as permitted sender) Received: from [209.85.219.12] (HELO mail-ew0-f12.google.com) (209.85.219.12) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Tue, 10 Feb 2009 00:29:49 +0000 Received: by ewy5 with SMTP id 5so1528391ewy.11 for ; Mon, 09 Feb 2009 16:29:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:from:to :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:date:references:x-mailer; bh=CHzJR7b3mKX7WJuN5J0DbrSdEiVoeADbCSbd84i4epA=; b=b/2M51T6xOkJPt/qh1B9vCO9ZAiS/79InBQM1iUu1etQXlIcrvFIqlInUc7YZf7P3M oQhncrXwBevFGqBe6rDM3nn17Z/MNOO60bMO5slVptm2SdiljS1ojWUV+XYpYGkIqOWv QdZae8zP7BE67H5tu3X1gwfwDw9koSx4ufN/Q= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references :x-mailer; b=trkUvzTr3XTOrEMdYJwPkm1e1o4FAOvOAuOogdf1y3n+48m6da1hNcJQ0CeIZek3I5 dCEFHlzRCRz+4yX6EPW5BTIcZJLp+WImvX4BkgYh02rp6IKwnJ684LkMHnvBrHK6D1uF y29J8b3wFnLxdZatOntXEC8C3yZyDBdi7ItMk= Received: by 10.210.70.14 with SMTP id s14mr4268860eba.150.1234225767615; Mon, 09 Feb 2009 16:29:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.0.16? (ppp121-45-202-232.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net [121.45.202.232]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id i4sm12295981nfh.20.2009.02.09.16.29.24 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 09 Feb 2009 16:29:26 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: From: Antony Blakey To: dev@couchdb.apache.org In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Subject: Re: couchdb transactions changes Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 10:59:18 +1030 References: <84F66023-030A-4669-B75C-3DCC92D71A78@yahoo.com> <3233C6E1-B613-4A39-AA4C-D46743C60981@gmail.com> <54602F24-6517-459F-98DB-1A934A98A3B8@gmail.com> <8CC336DF-241D-4E79-960D-763E43D4B484@apache.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.930.3) X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org On 10/02/2009, at 10:30 AM, Paul Davis wrote: >> Compaction and revision stemming (which is required to avoid >> unbounded >> growth) make intermediate states inconsistent because they can >> delete either >> the data of a document rev or the document rev itself. In the face of >> compaction, it's possible for consistency to only be achieved when >> the >> replication reaches the same MVCC commit point that the compaction >> was >> operating against. Revision stemming has a similar effect, although >> it has >> the further issue of being automatic i.e. not scheduled. >> >> That's ignoring replication failure, either temporary or permanent, >> which >> further complicates the picture. Given that intermediate states are >> not >> necessarily consistent, anything that leaves you in an intermediate >> state >> without a way forward, repudiates the guarantee of Eventual >> Consistency. >> > > I'm pretty sure the rest of this is wrong though. I mean no offense, but I'm looking for something more than 'pretty sure'. I'm trying to work through these issues so that I understand the formal model and design intention completely and properly. Antony Blakey ------------- CTO, Linkuistics Pty Ltd Ph: 0438 840 787 Borrow money from pessimists - they don't expect it back. -- Steven Wright