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From Robert Dionne <dio...@dionne-associates.com>
Subject Re: Fail on a simple case on replication
Date Tue, 24 Feb 2009 11:41:03 GMT

Robert Dionne
Chief Programmer
dionne@dionne-associates.com
203.231.9961



On Feb 24, 2009, at 6:26 AM, Antony Blakey wrote:

>
> On 24/02/2009, at 9:29 PM, Jan Lehnardt wrote:
>
>> CouchDB documents are limited to JSON (application/json) as the
>> content, that doesn't make the API less RESTful. If that's not the
>> right answer, I don't understand what you mean.
>
> application/json doesn't define the semantics of the payload e.g.  
> how to interact with the resource. To do that it would have to be  
> application/json+couchdoc et al.
>
>>> and it uses externally defined URL structures to effect operations.
>>
>> Can you elaborate on that?
>
> To be RESTful, the means of constructing URLs needs to be defined  
> by the media type specification. For example, having ?rev= is a  
> rule that is external to both the media type and the document.
>
> A RESTful API would have a single entry point, with every other URL  
> and service constructed/discovered by processing the content,  
> applying the rules of the media type to the content to construct  
> new URLS, just like HTML. The HTML web doesn't have a manual  
> describing how to effect operations by constructing certain URLs  
> beyond the interpretation of the content.
>
>> Why then have folks like Sam Ruby* or Tim Bray not objected yet?
>> Not trying to pick a fight here, I'm just wondering if you are  
>> interpreting
>> "the spec" a little too strict?
>
> The term is defined by Roy Fielding's thesis, and he has objected  
> to the misuse of the term: http://roy.gbiv.com/untangled/2008/rest- 
> apis-must-be-hypertext-driven. And the next post: http:// 
> roy.gbiv.com/untangled/2008/specialization is also good.

Antony,

   I read this thesis ages ago, and technically you are correct, if  
somewhat pedantic. I think CouchDB captures the just of being REST- 
ful and certainly from a marketing perspective it's timely. When I  
mention to potential customers that CouchDB database are accessed  
with URIs they say "oh it uses this new REST stuff, cool".  Often we  
have little choice over how the world takes an idea and runs with it.

Regards,

Bob



>
>>> My argument in this context is pointless. I know it's not going  
>>> to change.
>>
>> How about not trying to subtly create "them-and-us" situation? It  
>> seems
>> strange given that you clarified a statement about "the PMC"  
>> earlier in
>> this thread to avoid misinterpretation (thanks). Also, you never  
>> brought
>> this up, so how do you know it is not going to change?
>
> I have brought this up before on couchdb-user@incubator.apache.org  
> - 15 November 2008, Subject: RESTful? (was: Re: Document Updates).  
> Apache archives don't cover that time on that list.
>
> Hence, my comment, - let's not fire up this argument. I meant that  
> I wasn't going to waste m/l bandwidth rehashing an argument that  
> has already been done and dusted in this context.
>
> Antony Blakey
> --------------------------
> CTO, Linkuistics Pty Ltd
> Ph: 0438 840 787
>
> The project was so plagued by politics and ego that when the  
> engineers requested technical oversight, our manager hired a  
> psychologist instead.
>  -- Ron Avitzur
>


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