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From Antony Blakey <>
Subject Re: change planning
Date Mon, 05 Jan 2009 12:35:09 GMT

On 05/01/2009, at 10:45 PM, Noah Slater wrote:

>> On Jan 5, 2009, at 4:13 AM, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>> IMO, IRC is a horrible medium for anything but direct support of  
>> users, and
>> small debates, because it tends to leave people out of the  
>> discussion and
>> decision-making process.
> On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 06:55:05AM -0500, Robert Dionne wrote:
>> I'll second that. IRC seems to encourage more out of the box and less
>> deliberate thinking.
> I am going to have to disagree with both of these statements.
> You, personally, might not find IRC very useful, but I do, and I  
> know that some
> of the other community members do -- not just for support and  
> general chat, but
> as an incredibly fluid medium for discussion and collaboration. I  
> appreciate
> that mailing lists come with a host of benefits, but they do so at  
> the cost of
> formality and latency.
> A blanket dismissal of IRC as a counter-productive medium, which is  
> where this
> whole discussion seems to be going, is prescriptive nonsense.

The Apache Way is to have decision making using mailing lists. They  
discourage IRC as a medium in which decisions are made. Mailing lists  
are good for archiving discussion history, are a more democratic and  
less 'if you happen to be watching while the discussion happens'  
forum, and allow for extended discussions over time with high  

Consider the issue that motivated this thread. Chris remembered that  
Damien had said he would like _temp_view to become _slow_view. He had  
a moment so he checked with Damien and suddenly it's done. Fast and  
Loose - yes. A number of people think that change wasn't/isn't a good  
idea, and would have liked a chance to argue that point. That's good  
for CouchDB. Now, as the PMC you are technically able to dismiss  
everyone else's view and simply act as Damien's support team (and it  
has been suggested by a PMC member that you operate on that basis),  
but that's not the Apache Way, and that doesn't sound much like an  
Apache project.

Couch is an outstanding reinterpretation of Notes, and I'm full of  
admiration for what's been achieved, Along with the kudos of being an  
Apache project however, comes a need to open up the clique, and adopt  
a different style of operation.

Antony Blakey
CTO, Linkuistics Pty Ltd
Ph: 0438 840 787

Did you hear about the Buddhist who refused Novocain during a root  
His goal: transcend dental medication.

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