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From Apache Wiki <wikidi...@apache.org>
Subject [Couchdb Wiki] Trivial Update of "Meeting20121014" by DaveCottlehuber
Date Sun, 14 Oct 2012 19:19:13 GMT
Dear Wiki user,

You have subscribed to a wiki page or wiki category on "Couchdb Wiki" for change notification.

The "Meeting20121014" page has been changed by DaveCottlehuber:
http://wiki.apache.org/couchdb/Meeting20121014

Comment:
v1 no tidyup

New page:
Meeting Summary:

{{{
[2012/10/10 21:02] dch: I assume we have a quorum, so I suggest anybody who has a topic they want to cover just replies #topic <stuff>
[2012/10/10 21:03] eckoit: #topic bundle erica
[2012/10/10 21:03] dch: #topic cors & docs
[2012/10/10 21:03] dch: #topic paperwork - how suitable is this time & date?
[2012/10/10 21:04] dch: #topic 1.3.0 priorities
[2012/10/10 21:04] eckoit: #topic default couchapp format
[2012/10/10 21:05] jan____: #topic look at my horse
[2012/10/10 21:08] dch: #topic send out a proper timezone announcement, duly noted
[2012/10/10 21:09] dch: #topic doc versions
[2012/10/10 21:10] noe: #startmeeting
[2012/10/10 21:12] jan____: #topic futon2
[2012/10/10 21:12] noe: #startmeeting
[2012/10/10 21:12] dch: #startmeeting
[2012/10/10 21:14] noe: #chair bitdiddle davisp dch dch fdmanana jan____ JasonSmith jsonified kocolosk tilgovi
[2012/10/10 21:17] noe: #info dch indicates broad consensus that we want to merge in futon2 https://github.com/bigbluehat/futon2
[2012/10/10 21:18] noe: #info jan____ wants us to kick off an exploratory work to see if this will work
[2012/10/10 21:19] noe: #action eckoit will talk to bigbluehat and find out current status of futon2 for next week
[2012/10/10 21:20] dch: #info mainerror eckoit put hands up for helping futon2 integration
[2012/10/10 21:20] noe: dch: i #action-ed that already :)
[2012/10/10 21:22] noe: #action mainerror to post summary of frameworks options about futon to mailing list
[2012/10/10 21:22] dch: #action use @noe as the bot and forgo the pythonscript
[2012/10/10 21:23] noe: #topic doc versions
[2012/10/10 21:23] noe: #topic futon2
[2012/10/10 21:24] noe: (we need to do both, as the bot would do the subject for us. the #topic command is for the post-processing later)
[2012/10/10 21:24] ASFBot: >> fix typo, closes pr #29
[2012/10/10 21:25] noe: #topic doc versions
[2012/10/10 21:25] dch: #question what versions of couch should we aim to provide docs for?
[2012/10/10 21:29] noe: #info everyone in the channel agreed docs should target the 1.3 line and later
[2012/10/10 21:29] noe: #info everyone in the channel agreed docs in 1.3 should only cover changes since 1.2
[2012/10/10 21:30] noe: #info dch plans to go ahead with doc plans unless anyone objects on the mailing list
[2012/10/10 21:31] dch: #action dch to find way to track when features were introducted in docs
[2012/10/10 21:32] dch: #action dch to note who's working on what wrt to doc features/changes
[2012/10/10 21:33] dch: #topic couchapp format
[2012/10/10 21:38] dch: #info proposed to defer fixing a couchapp format post 1.3, and work on a consensus approach
[2012/10/10 21:41] noe: #info ekoit and chewbranca both expressed interest in leading couchapp effort with benoitc
[2012/10/10 21:44] dch: #action noe to send out release cadence as discussed in Eire with rnewson
[2012/10/10 21:46] dch: #action: dch to include link to release cadence
[2012/10/10 21:46] tilgovi: does that deserve an #action?
[2012/10/10 21:47] noe: #topic cors
[2012/10/10 21:48] noe: #info benoitc will branch the cors code tomorrow
[2012/10/10 21:49] dch: #topic meeting time/day
[2012/10/10 21:49] dch: #action dch to humbly apologise in minutes for jumping the gun, and see if we have any people in asia timezone who are left out
[2012/10/10 21:50] dch: #info general consensus from those who made it that this time works for them (!)
[2012/10/10 21:51] noe: # 1.3.0 prios
[2012/10/10 21:51] noe: #topic 1.3.0 prios
[2012/10/10 21:51] dch: #topic  1.3.0 prios
[2012/10/10 21:54] noe: #action dch will go through JIRA and mark items that block 1.3 release
[2012/10/10 21:54] mainerror: noe: For the minutes, http://wiki.apache.org/couchdb/FrontPage#Getting_Involved ... http://wiki.apache.org/couchdb/IRC_Meeting_Minutes
[2012/10/10 21:54] noe: #action nslater will assist dch with JIRA efforts
[2012/10/10 21:54] dch: #action wendall911 and Wohali to get stuck into packaging
[2012/10/10 21:55] noe: #action nslater to announce 1.3 blockers JIRA workflow, and invite contribution to final feature list
[2012/10/10 21:57] phenny: noe: [#COUCHDB-1346] CouchDB hangs during start of view indexing - ASF JIRA
[2012/10/10 21:59] dch: #topic test suite,
[2012/10/10 21:59] dch: #topic test suite,
[2012/10/10 21:59] dch: #topic test suite
[2012/10/10 22:02] dch: #info try to keep this short in future
[2012/10/10 22:04] dch: how about #info kocolosk and benoitc to send summary of testing in their forks to dev@ to start the ball rolling? I see this as a 1.3+
[2012/10/10 22:05] noe: are you gonna #action that?
[2012/10/10 22:05] dch: #topic pouch into futon
[2012/10/10 22:06] dch: #action kocolosk  to send summary of testing in their forks to dev@ to start the discussion
[2012/10/10 22:06] noe: #info wendall911 has offered to help with the tests
[2012/10/10 22:08] noe: #info pouch in futon discussion tabled until dale can join us
[2012/10/10 22:08] dch: #rhetorical
[2012/10/10 22:09] dch: #topic merge all the forks
[2012/10/10 22:15] noe: #info bigcouch merge dependant on community consensus around build system
[2012/10/10 22:15] noe: #info build system discussion to be brought to a close asap after 1.3
[2012/10/10 22:19] dch: #info refer to https://github.com/seth/rebar-tools for dependency locking
[2012/10/10 22:19] noe: mainerror: ask in #asfinfra
[2012/10/10 22:21] noe: #action wendall911 to take point on cleaning up build 0.9 cruft
[2012/10/10 22:22] noe: #action Wohali to help wendall911 with build system work
[2012/10/10 22:22] dch: #action kocolosk to provide woolly update on how cloudant and bigcouch and couchdb fit together in the NEW WORLD ORDER
[2012/10/10 22:25] noe: #action noe to set up a LYSE mailing list
[2012/10/10 22:27] noe: #endmeeting
[2012/10/10 22:31] tilgovi: benoitc: what is this?? https://github.com/refuge/rcouch/blob/master/package/deb/Makefile#L8
}}}

Full IRC log:

{{{
[2012/10/10 21:00] dch: I hereby declare the first IRC meeting of the CouchDB Pirates open, avast ye SQL users!
[2012/10/10 21:01] dch: Um we were going to have a cool little bot to track everything, but between times my computer is very dead so I'll do it by hand
[2012/10/10 21:01] Kxepal: dch: my head explode if I'll go rewrite one legacy java service that doesn't respect http protocol and works like rpc xml server
[2012/10/10 21:02] Kxepal: so ok(:
[2012/10/10 21:02] dch: I assume we have a quorum, so I suggest anybody who has a topic they want to cover just replies #topic <stuff>
[2012/10/10 21:02] johntiger: Dave, not sure what topics you want to cover but docs seem active - also could we discuss CORS
[2012/10/10 21:02] dch: then we'll go through them 1 by 1, I'll change the irc title so you know where we are
[2012/10/10 21:02] dch: johntiger: welcome, I love the irc handle :-)
[2012/10/10 21:03] eckoit: #topic bundle erica
[2012/10/10 21:03] dch: #topic cors & docs
[2012/10/10 21:03] dch: #topic paperwork - how suitable is this time & date?
[2012/10/10 21:04] dch: #topic 1.3.0 priorities
[2012/10/10 21:04] dch: I'll call a close on topics at 10 past latest.
[2012/10/10 21:04] eckoit: #topic default couchapp format
[2012/10/10 21:05] jan____: #topic look at my horse
[2012/10/10 21:05] mainerror: :o
[2012/10/10 21:06] noe: huh we started already?
[2012/10/10 21:06] noe: i thought it was 9pm my time
[2012/10/10 21:06] noe: dch: have you started the meeting?
[2012/10/10 21:06] noe: i.e. via the meeting bot?
[2012/10/10 21:06] noe: Kxepal: pong
[2012/10/10 21:07] mainerror: <dch> Um we were going to have a cool little bot to track everything, but between times my computer is very dead so I'll do it by hand
[2012/10/10 21:07] noe: dch: if so what is the bot's name?
[2012/10/10 21:07] noe: oh, that's a shame
[2012/10/10 21:07] jan____: noe: the email said 9pm dch's time
[2012/10/10 21:07] noe: the bot produces minutes its very cool
[2012/10/10 21:07] noe: UTC, which i translated as 9 utc for me
[2012/10/10 21:07] noe: or, rather, 9 for me
[2012/10/10 21:08] noe: nae bother
[2012/10/10 21:08] jan____: "at 9pm Vienna time"
[2012/10/10 21:08] green_turtle: utc+2
[2012/10/10 21:08] noe: okay
[2012/10/10 21:08] noe: sorry to derail
[2012/10/10 21:08] Kxepal: noe: I'd to ask about versions of couch that docs have to cover, but with dch advice we'll stop at 1.2 and 1.3 for now. is it ok?
[2012/10/10 21:08] dch: #topic send out a proper timezone announcement, duly noted
[2012/10/10 21:08] emjayess: jan____: you've a horse outside?
[2012/10/10 21:09] dch: #topic doc versions
[2012/10/10 21:09] jan____: emjayess: inside :)
[2012/10/10 21:09] mainerror: A pony?
[2012/10/10 21:09] noe: dch: when do we start?
[2012/10/10 21:10] jan____: aaaanyway
[2012/10/10 21:10] green_turtle: Kxepal: Cloudant use 1.0.2 so maybe it makes sense to includ it?
[2012/10/10 21:10] Kxepal: green_turtle: not problem for me, just need to setup limit how deeper to dig google and git log(:
[2012/10/10 21:10] noe: #startmeeting
[2012/10/10 21:11] noe: dch it is not here
[2012/10/10 21:12] jan____: #topic futon2
[2012/10/10 21:12] mainerror: Oh god, I forgot about Futon2!
[2012/10/10 21:12] noe: #startmeeting
[2012/10/10 21:12] dch: cool,
[2012/10/10 21:12] dch: #startmeeting
[2012/10/10 21:13] noe: o_O
[2012/10/10 21:13] dch: so topics, futon2, doc versions, couchapp format, horse, cors, meeting time/day, 1.3.0 prios, bundle erica,
[2012/10/10 21:13] noe: dch the bot isn't working
[2012/10/10 21:13] noe: it should announce the meeting has started
[2012/10/10 21:14] dch: aah well no pb, we'll survive
[2012/10/10 21:14] noe: okay, i will issue commands as if it is here
[2012/10/10 21:14] dch changed the topic to meeting - futon2
[2012/10/10 21:14] noe: i hope you saved the original topic
[2012/10/10 21:14] dch: ok so futon2, jan____  you have the floor
[2012/10/10 21:14] dch: @noe: natch
[2012/10/10 21:14] potatoeye: Pfft. They are royally boned.
[2012/10/10 21:14] noe: #chair bitdiddle davisp dch dch fdmanana jan____ JasonSmith jsonified kocolosk tilgovi
[2012/10/10 21:15] jan____: Woha! — So, we all agree that we need more Futon, and to get that we agreed to start over
[2012/10/10 21:15] noe: we did?
[2012/10/10 21:15] jan____: hence futon2. Currently residing at https://github.com/bigbluehat/futon2
[2012/10/10 21:15] tilgovi: oh, hi
[2012/10/10 21:15] noe: tilgovi: we're having a couchdb meeting
[2012/10/10 21:15] dch: the chairs recognise tilgovi, and forgives him for his absence
[2012/10/10 21:15] jan____: last commit 3 months ago, for a while it looked like there was good progress and I’d like to find out where we are and what tneeds doing
[2012/10/10 21:15] tilgovi: I see this
[2012/10/10 21:15] noe: jan____: is there broad consensus that we want to merge this in?
[2012/10/10 21:15] jan____: noe: kindasortainformally
[2012/10/10 21:16] noe: if not, should we attempt to build it?
[2012/10/10 21:16] dch: yes.
[2012/10/10 21:16] dch: its done sort of as a couchapp which isn't a bad move IMHO anyway.
[2012/10/10 21:16] mainerror: nods
[2012/10/10 21:16] noe: if we did this, would it be pre or post 1.3?
[2012/10/10 21:16] jan____: noe: yeah, this is a "lets see if we can build it" and then merge if we get it
[2012/10/10 21:17] jan____: noe: doesn't matter, it ships when it is done (visavis timed releases that we kindasorta do :)
[2012/10/10 21:17] kocolosk: heh
[2012/10/10 21:17] dch: I think post 1.3 unless TAMO (Then A Miracle Occurs). Given need for more changes as a result of BC merge, it makes sense to do it once & right
[2012/10/10 21:17] jan____: sooo, is anyone from the futon2 team here?
[2012/10/10 21:17] noe: #info dch indicates broad consensus that we want to merge in futon2 https://github.com/bigbluehat/futon2
[2012/10/10 21:17] dch: question: do we have any front-end devs who would be willing  / keen to get involved?
[2012/10/10 21:17] eckoit: raises hand
[2012/10/10 21:18] dch: woot!
[2012/10/10 21:18] Kxepal: +1
[2012/10/10 21:18] noe: #info jan____ wants us to kick off an exploratory work to see if this will work
[2012/10/10 21:18] mainerror: Well, I'm not exactly from the Futon2 team (officially) but I wanted to go for integrating Bootstrap and replacing jQuery UI.
[2012/10/10 21:18] jan____: (fwfw, I just installed the latest version and it looks fairly solid)
[2012/10/10 21:18] noe: eckoit, mainerror is this something you think you could look at between now and next week?
[2012/10/10 21:18] jan____: (code wise, it is still the old old sammy.js based one that mikeal started)
[2012/10/10 21:18] dch: mainerror: I'm +0 on framework changes, but we do need to realise that futon2 is used along with the test suite as an example of how to play with couch.
[2012/10/10 21:19] eckoit: noe: yes, I will talk to bigbluehat and see where its at, and whats left, etc
[2012/10/10 21:19] noe: thanks!
[2012/10/10 21:19] dch: mainerror:  what does bootstrap (I thought it was largely UI elements) have to do with this?
[2012/10/10 21:19] jan____: I am +1 to switch to whatever gets this shipped :)
[2012/10/10 21:19] noe: #action eckoit will talk to bigbluehat and find out current status of futon2 for next week
[2012/10/10 21:19] mainerror: Can't promise next week due to a stressful timetable next week.
[2012/10/10 21:19] dch: anybody else interested in putting their hand up?
[2012/10/10 21:19] mainerror: dch: I don't quite understand the question.
[2012/10/10 21:20] noe: mainerror: anyone else wanna help eckoit out
[2012/10/10 21:20] Wohali: for futon? not my area of expertise
[2012/10/10 21:20] dch: #info mainerror eckoit put hands up for helping futon2 integration
[2012/10/10 21:20] noe: dch: i #action-ed that already :)
[2012/10/10 21:20] kocolosk: dch: good point, and i think we don't necessarily want to encourage more jquery.couch.js usage
[2012/10/10 21:20] mainerror: jQuery UI is extremely ugly in terms of code
[2012/10/10 21:20] wendall911: I'm a leaning to +0 on framework changes. I'm sure sammy.js is great and all, but really having yet another framework in the mix might be bad
[2012/10/10 21:20] Wohali: is jquery a dead dog?
[2012/10/10 21:20] wendall911: something clean that could be incorporated into any framework as a base would be ideal
[2012/10/10 21:21] kocolosk: Wohali: no, certainly not - but the jquery.couch thing is getting long in the tooth
[2012/10/10 21:21] wendall911: Wohali: jquery-ui !== jquery
[2012/10/10 21:21] eckoit: mainerror: bikeshedding on bootstrap, we can discuss as we dig into it
[2012/10/10 21:21] Wohali: ahhhh
[2012/10/10 21:21] dch: let's not beat this to death, mainerror do you are you happy to send a summary to the ML on the evils of framework X and the wisdom of some alternative option?
[2012/10/10 21:21] noe: +1 for eckoit
[2012/10/10 21:21] kocolosk: nods
[2012/10/10 21:21] jan____: I think backbone(+chaplin) are what one would use today instead of sammy.
[2012/10/10 21:21] kocolosk: nods
[2012/10/10 21:21] wendall911: agrees
[2012/10/10 21:21] Wohali: i'm still stunned there is activity in here and things are moving along
[2012/10/10 21:21] jan____: but again, whatever feels best for the people who actually wrok on it
[2012/10/10 21:21] jan____: *work
[2012/10/10 21:21] noe: Wohali: ?
[2012/10/10 21:21] mainerror: dch: I guess I could yes.
[2012/10/10 21:22] noe: #action mainerror to post summary of frameworks options about futon to mailing list
[2012/10/10 21:22] dch: #action use @noe as the bot and forgo the pythonscript
[2012/10/10 21:22] dch: ok, shall we move along?
[2012/10/10 21:22] eckoit: one more thing
[2012/10/10 21:22] noe: dch: the bot will format all of this!
[2012/10/10 21:23] dch changed the topic to meeting - doc versions
[2012/10/10 21:23] dch: eckoit: shoot
[2012/10/10 21:23] noe: can someone sumarise the issues here?
[2012/10/10 21:23] dch changed the topic to meeting - futon2
[2012/10/10 21:23] noe: #topic doc versions
[2012/10/10 21:23] noe: #topic futon2
[2012/10/10 21:23] eckoit: I did a lot of work with pouch db to get get tracis tests going
[2012/10/10 21:23] dch: <mea culpa>
[2012/10/10 21:24] eckoit: would like to do the same with futon2 and the couch test suite
[2012/10/10 21:24] noe: (we need to do both, as the bot would do the subject for us. the #topic command is for the post-processing later)
[2012/10/10 21:24] dch: k, lets put that as a separate item on agenda
[2012/10/10 21:24] dch: ok?
[2012/10/10 21:24] eckoit: kind of a cross topic between futon3 and testing, ok
[2012/10/10 21:24] eckoit: seperate item
[2012/10/10 21:24] eckoit: (futon2) :)
[2012/10/10 21:24] ASFBot: 3jan@apache.org  origin/master * ca88701 (2 files) https://git-wip-us.apache.org/repos/asf?p=couchdb.git;a=commit;h=ca88701 :
[2012/10/10 21:24] ASFBot: >> fix typo, closes pr #29
[2012/10/10 21:24] tilgovi: can we get pouch into futon2 :)
[2012/10/10 21:24] dch changed the topic to meeting - doc versions
[2012/10/10 21:25] noe: #topic doc versions
[2012/10/10 21:25] dch: tilgovi: lets add that as an other topic aight?
[2012/10/10 21:25] tilgovi: yep
[2012/10/10 21:25] noe: okay so can someone explain the doc versions question to me?
[2012/10/10 21:25] dch: #question what versions of couch should we aim to provide docs for?
[2012/10/10 21:25] Kxepal: noe: for how many couchdb releases sphinx-docs have to be shipped?
[2012/10/10 21:26] dch: I'm suggesting 1.2.0 & then any changes for 1.3.0. That's already quite a bit of work.
[2012/10/10 21:26] Kxepal: e.g. 1.3 and 1.2 ok. is for 1.1? 1.0?
[2012/10/10 21:26] noe: right, this comes back to my argument that each release should document itself, and perhaps some notes about previous versions
[2012/10/10 21:26] dch: 1.1 in principle we could ship "as is", just removing a couple of bits.
[2012/10/10 21:26] noe: but you should be able to get the docs for previous versions... from previous versions
[2012/10/10 21:26] dch: I'd question whether that is worth the effort.
[2012/10/10 21:26] Kxepal: quetsion is how many this vesionadded versionchanges have to be
[2012/10/10 21:27] Kxepal: need some base release to start count
[2012/10/10 21:27] noe: just between 1.2 and 1.3 i guess
[2012/10/10 21:27] noe: as if 1.2 had full docs
[2012/10/10 21:27] jan____: -1 on going back until we have this streamlined for current versions
[2012/10/10 21:27] wendall911: we've all been using the wiki or referencing source for years. Having 1.2+ docs would be acceptable.
[2012/10/10 21:27] dch: I would be happy to work on backporting the scripts & bits from 1.3.0 to 1.1.1 if there's a feeling we need that. But after 1.3.0
[2012/10/10 21:27] noe: i dont see any point
[2012/10/10 21:27] noe: docs for 1.3 lines and later
[2012/10/10 21:27] tilgovi: +1
[2012/10/10 21:27] dch: any naysayers?
[2012/10/10 21:28] wendall911: yeah, 1.3 forward is good :)
[2012/10/10 21:28] mainerror: +1
[2012/10/10 21:28] dch: noe: how do we note that as a decision?
[2012/10/10 21:28] Kxepal: and it doesn't matter to assign in which version thing was changes or introduced?
[2012/10/10 21:28] noe: dch: we dont. we cant make decisions in this meeting.
[2012/10/10 21:28] dch: noe: ack, my bad
[2012/10/10 21:28] noe: dch: but we should note it as info and let people on the ml object
[2012/10/10 21:29] noe: #info everyone in the channel agreed docs should target the 1.3 line and later
[2012/10/10 21:29] green_turtle: what kind of docs do you mean?
[2012/10/10 21:29] dch: Kxepal: shouldn't be a problem, we can add appropriate version links to the website as needed
[2012/10/10 21:29] green_turtle: wiki?
[2012/10/10 21:29] noe: #info everyone in the channel agreed docs in 1.3 should only cover changes since 1.2
[2012/10/10 21:29] Kxepal: dch: ok, got it
[2012/10/10 21:29] tilgovi: Kxepal: it would seem to me a requirement that additions/changes to the docs note the version in which they were introduced... if that's what you mean?
[2012/10/10 21:29] Kxepal: tilgovi: yes
[2012/10/10 21:30] dch: green_turtle: we are talking about a finalised version of http://couchdb.readthedocs.org/en/latest/index.html, donated from couchbase, and to match 1.3.0
[2012/10/10 21:30] green_turtle: i mentioned that Cloudant uses 1.0.2
[2012/10/10 21:30] noe: #info dch plans to go ahead with doc plans unless anyone objects on the mailing list
[2012/10/10 21:31] dch: #action dch to find way to track when features were introducted in docs
[2012/10/10 21:31] dch: any other doc-related points before we move on?
[2012/10/10 21:31] tilgovi: oof... the configuration options need some help with the descriptions
[2012/10/10 21:31] kocolosk: green_turtle: we'll fix that
[2012/10/10 21:32] green_turtle: cool
[2012/10/10 21:32] noe: tilgovi: we should have some changes to that landing shortly
[2012/10/10 21:32] dch: tilgovi: yeah, people are working on that atm
[2012/10/10 21:32] tilgovi: oustanding
[2012/10/10 21:32] dch: #action dch to note who's working on what wrt to doc features/changes
[2012/10/10 21:33] dch changed the topic to meeting - couchapp format
[2012/10/10 21:33] dch: #topic couchapp format
[2012/10/10 21:34] dch: eckoit: you're up
[2012/10/10 21:34] noe: i think we should punt this until post-1.3 maybe?
[2012/10/10 21:34] eckoit: ok this is from the heated ml discussion
[2012/10/10 21:35] eckoit: I just wanted to back up and say we need to serve two masters with this those just doing views, lists, etc and those doing couchapps
[2012/10/10 21:35] eckoit: and I think they have different needs
[2012/10/10 21:35] hitchcock.freenode.net sets mode +o ChanServ
[2012/10/10 21:35] dch: summarising, there are 2 main formats used, and a host of others. kanso/couchapp.node.js === single file per ddoc, couchapp === directory hierarchy.
[2012/10/10 21:36] eckoit: well we have to start with the traditional couchapp I think
[2012/10/10 21:36] dch: I think bumping this post 1.3.0 will not harm anybody. But we did agree in the summit to go ahead with <something>.
[2012/10/10 21:36] noe: right
[2012/10/10 21:36] noe: i would like some consensus building around this activity
[2012/10/10 21:37] dch: benoitc has said he's willing to integrate erica (the current erlangbased incarnation of couchapp)
[2012/10/10 21:37] eckoit: I am fine with talking about this later then. But was hoping to get erica with 1.3
[2012/10/10 21:37] noe: and then we can make a proposal and Just Do It™
[2012/10/10 21:37] noe: but i dont want to distract benoit from his current efforts, wrt 1.3
[2012/10/10 21:37] dch: kanso is awesome, however it is dependent on node.js.  still a fast moving target
[2012/10/10 21:37] dch: so what's next steps here eckoit, anybody?
[2012/10/10 21:37] eckoit: I agree, I dont want kanso as the default
[2012/10/10 21:37] noe: punt until 1.3
[2012/10/10 21:37] dch: but we shouldnt break it eithe.
[2012/10/10 21:37] noe: then we should start a consensus building process
[2012/10/10 21:37] noe: and draft a proposal
[2012/10/10 21:38] noe: (or more than one if we're split)
[2012/10/10 21:38] dch: #info proposed to defer fixing a couchapp format post 1.3, and work on a consensus approach
[2012/10/10 21:38] eckoit: sure
[2012/10/10 21:38] dch: anybody interested in pushing that along? It's worth a jira ticket and improving your erlang.
[2012/10/10 21:39] noe: i would like to see eckoit and benoitc lead this effort
[2012/10/10 21:39] noe: they're at the helm of our meaningful couchapp work
[2012/10/10 21:39] dch: this is a good area (relatively free from dependencies on core couch) to get another erlangy person up to speed.
[2012/10/10 21:39] jan____: +1
[2012/10/10 21:39] noe: yeah, good point
[2012/10/10 21:39] chewbranca: I would be interested in helping out as well
[2012/10/10 21:40] dch: chewbranca: you live!! welcome brother :-)
[2012/10/10 21:40] noe: eckoit: you know erlang?
[2012/10/10 21:40] noe: does not
[2012/10/10 21:40] wendall911: I think from what benoit was pointing out, that we could conceivably support more than one approach with OTP
[2012/10/10 21:40] eckoit: noe: nope
[2012/10/10 21:40] dch: wendall911: easily, yes.
[2012/10/10 21:40] chewbranca: dch hahaha yeah finally stepped from under my lurking rock
[2012/10/10 21:40] wendall911: cool, so I think that's worth pointing out
[2012/10/10 21:40] mainerror: is currently learning Erlang
[2012/10/10 21:41] noe: eckoit: you interested in picking it up with the benoitc for this couchapp stuff? :)
[2012/10/10 21:41] noe: man, typo city tonight for me
[2012/10/10 21:41] eckoit: noe: sure. I will get my hands dirty
[2012/10/10 21:41] chewbranca: I'm picking up erlang right now as well, I should be able to help out a bit with the couchapp stuff on both the javascript app side and some level of the erlang side
[2012/10/10 21:41] dch: eckoit: ok, let's tag team then, and use this as a LYSE opportunity.
[2012/10/10 21:41] noe: #info ekoit and chewbranca both expressed interest in leading couchapp effort with benoitc
[2012/10/10 21:41] dch: I *love* our meetingbot
[2012/10/10 21:42] dch: any furthers?
[2012/10/10 21:42] eckoit: I say if we can bundle erica  with 1.3 as is, and then next release tweak the formats
[2012/10/10 21:42] dch: further questions?
[2012/10/10 21:42] eckoit: is anyone opposed to that?
[2012/10/10 21:42] noe: that sounds contentious
[2012/10/10 21:42] noe: what would be the point of that?
[2012/10/10 21:42] noe: seems like we'd be going off half-cocked
[2012/10/10 21:42] noe: may as well wait until we've decided what we want to do fur realz
[2012/10/10 21:42] benoitc: will publish first the cors patch tomorrow
[2012/10/10 21:42] eckoit: hmm, well we need something to load futon2
[2012/10/10 21:42] noe: and again, i dont want to overburden benoitc
[2012/10/10 21:43] benoitc: erica why nto depends on the release time
[2012/10/10 21:43] dch: let's put that to the list.
[2012/10/10 21:43] noe: futon2 for 1.3?? i am not sure that was discussed
[2012/10/10 21:43] noe: lets not be over-ambitious
[2012/10/10 21:43] dch: noe:  not futon2, erica
[2012/10/10 21:43] noe: after 1.3 we'll switch to timed releases anyway
[2012/10/10 21:43] dch: (ie couchapp erlang tool)
[2012/10/10 21:43] dch: ok, lets move on
[2012/10/10 21:43] benoitc: also just arrived sorry
[2012/10/10 21:43] noe: dch: eckoit says we'll need erica for futon2... in 1.3
[2012/10/10 21:43] jan____: I would refrain from pinning features to releases.
[2012/10/10 21:43] benoitc: +1
[2012/10/10 21:43] dch: jan____: good reminder
[2012/10/10 21:44] noe: jan____: with a release cadence, _1
[2012/10/10 21:44] wendall911: +1
[2012/10/10 21:44] noe: ... erm +1
[2012/10/10 21:44] benoitc: it can wait the next release imo
[2012/10/10 21:44] dch: ready to move on to next topic?
[2012/10/10 21:44] noe: right no biggy
[2012/10/10 21:44] noe: yep, DOIT
[2012/10/10 21:44] noe: (15 minutes left on the clock, for 1hr meeting, if we're time boxing)
[2012/10/10 21:44] dch: #action noe to send out release cadence as discussed in Eire with rnewson
[2012/10/10 21:44] noe: wait what?
[2012/10/10 21:44] dch: skips jan's horse
[2012/10/10 21:44] noe: ive done that already
[2012/10/10 21:45] dch: noe: OK, great. I will look that up & include a link
[2012/10/10 21:45] noe: what i really need is someone who can help me with git, and actually instituting changes post 1.3
[2012/10/10 21:45] dch: noe: happy to do that, I'm all gitted up now
[2012/10/10 21:45] jan____: noe: happy to git-guide
[2012/10/10 21:45] tilgovi: i'm feeling gitty
[2012/10/10 21:45] dch: getting gitty wid it
[2012/10/10 21:45] noe: rnewson and davisp would be ideal for that, but anyone can help if they dont mind picking up some of the release process stuff at the same time
[2012/10/10 21:45] mainerror: Same here. Just shout if you need help.
[2012/10/10 21:45] Wohali: ch stole my joke
[2012/10/10 21:45] Wohali: dch*
[2012/10/10 21:45] noe: okay seems like i have plenty of volunteers
[2012/10/10 21:46] Wohali: noe: as a recent git convert I'm willing to help out at some point as well
[2012/10/10 21:46] noe: again, this should be the first thing we do post 1.3
[2012/10/10 21:46] dch: #action: dch to include link to release cadence
[2012/10/10 21:46] johntiger: is this right time to say it would be good to get release road map somewhere on web ?
[2012/10/10 21:46] noe: release cadence also includes our new Merge Policy
[2012/10/10 21:46] tilgovi: also, anyone been working on the deb situation?
[2012/10/10 21:46] noe: there is a wiki page on this that has not been properly fleshed out
[2012/10/10 21:46] Wohali: tilgovi: noe promised to start a packaging ml
[2012/10/10 21:46] dch: johntiger: yup, I think it will take us a bit to get organised
[2012/10/10 21:46] tilgovi: does that deserve an #action?
[2012/10/10 21:46] noe: tilgovi: can we keep to the topics pls!
[2012/10/10 21:46] Wohali: tilgovi: the debian package maintainer agreed to support us "promptly"
[2012/10/10 21:46] tilgovi: :-[ sorry.
[2012/10/10 21:46] noe: dch: can yo update the topic?
[2012/10/10 21:46] dch changed the topic to meeting - cors
[2012/10/10 21:46] dch: CORS
[2012/10/10 21:47] noe: #topic cors
[2012/10/10 21:47] dch: CORS CORS CORS CORS CORS CORS CORS CORS CORS CORS
[2012/10/10 21:47] benoitc: slaps dch
[2012/10/10 21:47] tilgovi: (is sthere an agenda?)
[2012/10/10 21:47] benoitc: so tomorrow :)
[2012/10/10 21:47] dch: tilgovi: yes, so topics, futon2, doc versions, couchapp format, horse, cors, meeting time/day, 1.3.0 prios, bundle erica, test suite, pouch into futon, merge all the forks
[2012/10/10 21:47] noe: tilgovi: yep, we have a list of topics we're going through
[2012/10/10 21:47] noe: benoitc: anything to update us on for cors?
[2012/10/10 21:47] tilgovi: got it
[2012/10/10 21:48] dch: benoitc: I got lost in teh erlangs with this, can we help out in some way? [docs, tests, ...]
[2012/10/10 21:48] benoitc: noe: i will branch the code tomorrow
[2012/10/10 21:48] benoitc: need to extract from my own code
[2012/10/10 21:48] noe: #info benoitc will branch the cors code tomorrow
[2012/10/10 21:48] dch: tests seem problematic, I can't see how we are going to do that within the current test suite.
[2012/10/10 21:48] noe: benoitc: do you need any help?
[2012/10/10 21:48] benoitc: noe: so far it includes tests
[2012/10/10 21:48] benoitc: noe: nope
[2012/10/10 21:48] noe: k
[2012/10/10 21:48] benoitc: just some coffee
[2012/10/10 21:48] noe: hehe
[2012/10/10 21:48] noe: do we need to discuss the tests or can we move on?
[2012/10/10 21:49] dch changed the topic to meeting - meeting time/day
[2012/10/10 21:49] benoitc: dch: tests are written in erlang ,i'm faking the request
[2012/10/10 21:49] dch: #topic meeting time/day
[2012/10/10 21:49] noe: i like wednesdays
[2012/10/10 21:49] benoitc: just like fthe vhost module
[2012/10/10 21:49] dch: benoitc: purrrfect
[2012/10/10 21:49] tilgovi: right now seems to be working pretty well?
[2012/10/10 21:49] noe: and this time works for me
[2012/10/10 21:49] Wohali: in the future I can do this time as well
[2012/10/10 21:49] noe: we are notibly missing two pmc members. rnewson (on holiday) and davisp
[2012/10/10 21:49] dch: #action dch to humbly apologise in minutes for jumping the gun, and see if we have any people in asia timezone who are left out
[2012/10/10 21:49] tilgovi: JasonSmith
[2012/10/10 21:50] tilgovi: ?
[2012/10/10 21:50] dch: option is to vary the slot once a month to spread that out
[2012/10/10 21:50] kocolosk: this is normally a good time for davisp, and workable for rnewson as well
[2012/10/10 21:50] noe: kocolosk: thanks
[2012/10/10 21:50] benoitc: next month i will be on asia time though
[2012/10/10 21:50] noe: not sure what to do about JasonSmith
[2012/10/10 21:50] mainerror: Personally I'd prefer one our later but I can try to make this time too.
[2012/10/10 21:50] noe: really though, the minutes we post should be enough for him to participate
[2012/10/10 21:50] dch: #info general consensus from those who made it that this time works for them (!)
[2012/10/10 21:50] noe: that is *the whole point* of them
[2012/10/10 21:50] noe: and why decisions cannot be taken here
[2012/10/10 21:51] tilgovi: dch: who's surprised, really.
[2012/10/10 21:51] jan____: benoitc: is your latest CORS code based on the work dale and I did around CouchHack Vienna or something else?
[2012/10/10 21:51] dch: those people should move to europe
[2012/10/10 21:51] kocolosk: dch: "everyone who isn't here raise your hand"
[2012/10/10 21:51] kocolosk: ;)
[2012/10/10 21:51] dch: moving along...
[2012/10/10 21:51] noe: kocolosk: heh
[2012/10/10 21:51] benoitc: jan____: dale based it on mine, i took some of its change
[2012/10/10 21:51] dch changed the topic to meeting -  1.3.0 prios
[2012/10/10 21:51] benoitc: main change though is that it is acting like a middle ware
[2012/10/10 21:51] noe: # 1.3.0 prios
[2012/10/10 21:51] noe: #topic 1.3.0 prios
[2012/10/10 21:51] jan____: benoitc: cool, thx
[2012/10/10 21:51] dch: #topic  1.3.0 prios
[2012/10/10 21:52] benoitc: so it wrap the request object like vhost instead of passing values in the air
[2012/10/10 21:52] noe: CORS, docs, what else?
[2012/10/10 21:52] dch: I think that's it.
[2012/10/10 21:52] benoitc: what is the status of the macosx bin for 1.3 ?
[2012/10/10 21:52] dch: the nasty view server bug is fixed  stefankoegl at least hasn't had issues IIRC
[2012/10/10 21:52] benoitc: the one with the ui dl on the website
[2012/10/10 21:52] tilgovi: CORS, docs, packaging
[2012/10/10 21:52] noe: tilgovi: packaging?
[2012/10/10 21:53] dch: benoitc: it builds fine via homebrew I don't expect we'll have issues.
[2012/10/10 21:53] benoitc: ok
[2012/10/10 21:53] tilgovi: we've talked about it a lot. isn't that related to the macosx bin question?
[2012/10/10 21:53] noe: i think we should go through JIRA and mark tickets that block 1.3
[2012/10/10 21:53] noe: i can then create a filter and share it with the list so we can burn through them
[2012/10/10 21:53] noe: who wants to lead that effort?
[2012/10/10 21:53] dch: wendall911: would you be willing to lead the packaging tests? in particular we have ubuntu 12.04 ready to bit us
[2012/10/10 21:53] dch: noe: on jira cleanup, I'll do it.
[2012/10/10 21:54] dch: probably tomorrow, now that my restore is (largely) complete
[2012/10/10 21:54] wendall911: dch: I'd love to
[2012/10/10 21:54] noe: #action dch will go through JIRA and mark items that block 1.3 release
[2012/10/10 21:54] mainerror: noe: For the minutes, http://wiki.apache.org/couchdb/FrontPage#Getting_Involved ... http://wiki.apache.org/couchdb/IRC_Meeting_Minutes
[2012/10/10 21:54] kocolosk: i thought rnewson took a stab at that already, too
[2012/10/10 21:54] dch: ooooh
[2012/10/10 21:54] Wohali: dch: I recently got our bigcouch built and working on ubuntu 12.04, I can lend wendall911 a hand if desired
[2012/10/10 21:54] noe: #action nslater will assist dch with JIRA efforts
[2012/10/10 21:54] noe: mainerror: ?
[2012/10/10 21:54] dch: #action wendall911 and Wohali to get stuck into packaging
[2012/10/10 21:54] dch: ok?
[2012/10/10 21:54] Wohali: fine
[2012/10/10 21:54] dch: 1.3.0 blockers I have a biggier.
[2012/10/10 21:54] mainerror: Prepared a wiki link for it.
[2012/10/10 21:55] wendall911: Several people have voiced interest in this. Would be nice to have a discussion tomorrowish about packaging with those interested.
[2012/10/10 21:55] noe: #action nslater to announce 1.3 blockers JIRA workflow, and invite contribution to final feature list
[2012/10/10 21:55] benoitc: how do you define packaging exactly?
[2012/10/10 21:55] noe: mainerror: kthx
[2012/10/10 21:55] wendall911: heh
[2012/10/10 21:55] wendall911: benoitc: distro packages
[2012/10/10 21:55] benoitc: k
[2012/10/10 21:55] dch: yeees. perhaps somebody with more experience will overlook my handwavey statements
[2012/10/10 21:55] noe: do we need packaging@couchdb.a.o?
[2012/10/10 21:56] dch: e.g. I would love to dump my glazier build scripts and have it work in couch core. But I'll need rebar & 1.3. for that.
[2012/10/10 21:56] benoitc: hum i think it's fine to have it on dev@
[2012/10/10 21:56] dch: for me COUCHDB-1346 is a blocker.
[2012/10/10 21:56] benoitc: dch: so i have quite finish the apache-couchdb-sdk
[2012/10/10 21:56] dch: .o jira COUCHDB-1346
[2012/10/10 21:56] noe: Wohali: perhaps prefix emails with [PKG] for the time being
[2012/10/10 21:56] phenny: Failed to find ticket: 'COUCHDB-DEV-COUCHDB-1346'
[2012/10/10 21:56] benoitc: for unixes
[2012/10/10 21:56] kocolosk: d'oh
[2012/10/10 21:56] dch: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COUCHDB-1346
[2012/10/10 21:56] jan____: PHENNY
[2012/10/10 21:57] noe: .title
[2012/10/10 21:57] dch: .o jira 1346
[2012/10/10 21:57] phenny: noe: [#COUCHDB-1346] CouchDB hangs during start of view indexing - ASF JIRA
[2012/10/10 21:57] phenny: Failed to find ticket: 'COUCHDB-DEV-1346'
[2012/10/10 21:57] dch: anyways.
[2012/10/10 21:57] noe: dch: mark it as blocking 1.3
[2012/10/10 21:57] benoitc: oh
[2012/10/10 21:57] Wohali: noe: Wilco
[2012/10/10 21:57] noe: Wohali: ?
[2012/10/10 21:57] dch: TL;DR windows needs a lazy delete to handle open views. I know *what* needs to happen but can't make it work.
[2012/10/10 21:57] tilgovi: I have a couple blockers
[2012/10/10 21:57] dch: not important right now.
[2012/10/10 21:57] noe: tilgovi: mark them in JIRA
[2012/10/10 21:57] dch: tilgovi: spit it out man!
[2012/10/10 21:58] noe: tilgovi: target versions field
[2012/10/10 21:58] mainerror: noe: Wilco - Will comply. :)
[2012/10/10 21:58] noe: dch: no need to discuss these now
[2012/10/10 21:58] tilgovi: they are
[2012/10/10 21:58] tilgovi: they are!
[2012/10/10 21:58] noe: dch: we need to just clean up jira and use that as our tool for deciding what is in and out
[2012/10/10 21:58] noe: dch: "target versions" should be set to 1.3 or something post-1.3, depending
[2012/10/10 21:58] dch: we had topic "bundle erica" but I think consensus was to bump that post 1.3. next is: test suite,
[2012/10/10 21:59] noe: i think so too
[2012/10/10 21:59] dch changed the topic to meeting -  test suite
[2012/10/10 21:59] dch: #topic test suite,
[2012/10/10 21:59] dch: #topic test suite,
[2012/10/10 21:59] dch: #topic test suite
[2012/10/10 21:59] tilgovi: what about this one? https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COUCHDB-1485
[2012/10/10 22:00] dch: so: 2 things: pouchdb & others (eckoit), and eunit changes (benoitc/dch)
[2012/10/10 22:00] kocolosk: dch: unit / integration / regression / system, all of the above?
[2012/10/10 22:00] kocolosk: ah
[2012/10/10 22:00] dch: kocolosk: we can discuss all of that if reqd, I gues
[2012/10/10 22:00] benoitc: i would go for common tests & eunit though
[2012/10/10 22:00] jan____: tilgovi: sounds like the change was intended by you?
[2012/10/10 22:00] dch: tilgovi: up to you, mark it as blocking if reqd
[2012/10/10 22:00] kocolosk: i'm intrigued by common test after reading http://learnyousomeerlang.com/common-test-for-uncommon-tests
[2012/10/10 22:01] tilgovi: Okay. I'll take a look at it. My only other one is marked for 1.3. I'll take care of it.
[2012/10/10 22:01] noe: tilgovi: mark the fix version as 1.3 if you think it's blocking, and add a comment
[2012/10/10 22:01] eckoit: I just wanted to say that I had some success with a good test suite for pouchdb and would replicate that for futon2 running the browser based tests
[2012/10/10 22:01] noe: we are officially into over-time (based on 1hr meeting length)
[2012/10/10 22:01] wendall911: One issue that came up quite a bit in the 1.2 release was tests that can randomly fail for various reasons. Would be nice to side step that regardless the solution.
[2012/10/10 22:02] noe: lets try to keep this snappy people, we all have real lives to attend to :)
[2012/10/10 22:02] dch: #info try to keep this short in future
[2012/10/10 22:02] benoitc: kocolosk: looks useful in our case
[2012/10/10 22:02] bitdiddle: kocolosk: +1 on CT, just finished that article also
[2012/10/10 22:02] dch: so one of you happy to send a note to ML on options vs erlang tests then?
[2012/10/10 22:03] dch: I would guess what you have sidestream in refuge/bigcouch/cloudant is significant.
[2012/10/10 22:03] kocolosk: enh, not that significant on our side
[2012/10/10 22:03] dch: eckoit: we'll come back to you shgortly.
[2012/10/10 22:03] kocolosk: bit of eunit, bit of proper, nothing too substantial
[2012/10/10 22:04] kocolosk: i'd only say so far that i'm intrigued by CT -- I'm not ready to propose that we dive headfirst into it for system tests and discard all of the JS
[2012/10/10 22:04] dch: how about #info kocolosk and benoitc to send summary of testing in their forks to dev@ to start the ball rolling? I see this as a 1.3+
[2012/10/10 22:04] kocolosk: can do on that
[2012/10/10 22:04] dch: kocolosk: I think we'll always need JS (or node flavoured) tests, even for pouch / browser compatibility. Having the option is important.
[2012/10/10 22:05] dch: let's move on then
[2012/10/10 22:05] kocolosk: yep
[2012/10/10 22:05] noe: are you gonna #action that?
[2012/10/10 22:05] benoitc: not sure i will have time until the end of the months for tests
[2012/10/10 22:05] dch changed the topic to meeting -  pouch into futon
[2012/10/10 22:05] benoitc: for now working on extracting rcouch patches
[2012/10/10 22:05] dch: benoitc: not a problem then. Adam can start, let it settle for a bit.
[2012/10/10 22:05] dch: #topic pouch into futon
[2012/10/10 22:05] noe: are you going to action the test stuff dch?
[2012/10/10 22:05] mainerror: Don't we need Dale for this?
[2012/10/10 22:06] wendall911: I'll be dealing with the tests for packaging requirements. I could help test the tests.
[2012/10/10 22:06] noe: mainerror: quite maybe
[2012/10/10 22:06] dch: #action kocolosk  to send summary of testing in their forks to dev@ to start the discussion
[2012/10/10 22:06] dch: meta-test
[2012/10/10 22:06] noe: #info wendall911 has offered to help with the tests
[2012/10/10 22:06] dch: so I don't recall who proposed this, eckoit? you have the floor
[2012/10/10 22:06] noe: we should punt pouch until dale can join us
[2012/10/10 22:06] dch: +!
[2012/10/10 22:06] noe: no?
[2012/10/10 22:06] dch: +1
[2012/10/10 22:07] mainerror: +1
[2012/10/10 22:07] dch: more importantly this is a point about "what is couch"
[2012/10/10 22:07] eckoit: I did not propose, but would be happy to add to futon2 :)
[2012/10/10 22:07] eckoit: but actually +0 on the reason
[2012/10/10 22:07] noe: dch: it is? how so?
[2012/10/10 22:07] dch: in interests of time, I suggest we leave this for "NEXT TIME" then
[2012/10/10 22:07] eckoit: fine with me
[2012/10/10 22:07] noe: okay
[2012/10/10 22:08] dch: noe: well today we provide an erlang-based platform that runs JSON docs etc etc etc.
[2012/10/10 22:08] noe: #info pouch in futon discussion tabled until dale can join us
[2012/10/10 22:08] noe: dch: okay
[2012/10/10 22:08] dch: How ready are we (as a project, and as a community) to provide an apache-quality browser equivalent?
[2012/10/10 22:08] dch: #rhetorical
[2012/10/10 22:08] noe: okay
[2012/10/10 22:09] dch changed the topic to meeting -  merge all the forks
[2012/10/10 22:09] dch: sweet, last topic, hopefully short.
[2012/10/10 22:09] dch: #topic merge all the forks
[2012/10/10 22:09] kocolosk: :)
[2012/10/10 22:09] noe: we need davisp and rnewson for this really
[2012/10/10 22:09] benoitc: hard one
[2012/10/10 22:09] jan____: +1
[2012/10/10 22:09] dch: TL;DR my impression as an erlang lightweight, is that there are only a handful (4) people who (a) can do this, and (b) know the background.
[2012/10/10 22:09] kocolosk: i believe rnewson feels a bit blocked until we make some decisions about source code layout and build system
[2012/10/10 22:09] dch: so: this is definitely a post 1.3 thing
[2012/10/10 22:10] kocolosk: absolutely
[2012/10/10 22:10] dch: but I would suggest 3 actions:
[2012/10/10 22:10] benoitc: also i would like to know the status of the otp thing I summarized
[2012/10/10 22:10] ASFBot: JIRA: Randall Leeds resolved COUCHDB-1155 - Etag send by list function does not depend on userCtx as 'Duplicate' [ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COUCHDB-1155 ]
[2012/10/10 22:10] wendall911: +1 on OTP discussion
[2012/10/10 22:10] benoitc: i personnaly ready to start the work on that once we settle on a design
[2012/10/10 22:10] dch: 1 - cloudant to clarify how this relates to bigcouch & their product. No saga but just a bit of pixie dust, how do you see this working.
[2012/10/10 22:10] noe: benoitc: not had time to look at it. trying to focus my efforts on docs
[2012/10/10 22:11] dch: 2 - a general request to do as much of this in the open as possible. I realise that makes it a lot more work, but there will rarely be such an interesting and complex merge.
[2012/10/10 22:11] dch: this is a *huge* opportunity to get some of those rarely discussed "why does couchdb do this in that way" discussions on the table.
[2012/10/10 22:12] pstoll|away is now known as pstoll
[2012/10/10 22:12] dch: 3 - how can we help? open ended discussion for sure.
[2012/10/10 22:12] mainerror: I don't get 3
[2012/10/10 22:12] dch: benoitc: re (2) it would be great if you can give that some though vs refuge, but there's no rush to answer it
[2012/10/10 22:12] kocolosk: dch: no qualms about 2) from our end
[2012/10/10 22:13] jan____: ALRIGHT, all caught up on dev@ and commits@. declared bankrupcy on jira & users@. I’m officially back!
[2012/10/10 22:13] kocolosk: very little still needs to be open-sourced
[2012/10/10 22:13] noe: jan____: haha
[2012/10/10 22:13] kocolosk: and the stuff that is open-sourced tends not to have a private fork anywhere
[2012/10/10 22:13] noe: it seems clear to me that this not only needs to be punted until post 1.3
[2012/10/10 22:13] benoitc: dch: tje android thing in refuge is missing
[2012/10/10 22:13] dch: mainerror: if we have say 5 people (benoit, adam, bob x2, paul,  etc) who can actually do the work, how can we helpthem?
[2012/10/10 22:13] noe: ... it needs to be punted until after we've reached consensus about our new build
[2012/10/10 22:13] benoitc: soon it will be the same for ios but ...
[2012/10/10 22:14] kocolosk: noe: "consensus about our new build"
[2012/10/10 22:14] mainerror: dch got it thanks. :)
[2012/10/10 22:14] kocolosk: meaning self-contained erlang and whatnot?
[2012/10/10 22:14] noe: kocolosk: ?
[2012/10/10 22:14] benoitc: noe: np
[2012/10/10 22:14] benoitc: kocolosk: I think we need
[2012/10/10 22:14] noe: kocolosk: yes. our plans for the build system. the otp stuff benoitc posted about and rnewson feels blocked on
[2012/10/10 22:14] kocolosk: noe: ok, agreed
[2012/10/10 22:14] noe: we need to ratify this asap after 1.3 and just get cracking
[2012/10/10 22:15] noe: #info bigcouch merge dependant on community consensus around build system
[2012/10/10 22:15] benoitc: oh also i hav this _db_updates : https://github.com/refuge/couch_dbupdates
[2012/10/10 22:15] noe: #info build system discussion to be brought to a close asap after 1.3
[2012/10/10 22:15] benoitc: do you think it should land pre-1.3 ?
[2012/10/10 22:15] benoitc: err
[2012/10/10 22:16] benoitc: post
[2012/10/10 22:16] noe: clarify "it"?
[2012/10/10 22:16] benoitc: the code inside
[2012/10/10 22:16] kocolosk: dch: in re 1), couchdb and bigcouch are critical elements of our technology stack, but we're not in the business of supporting them directly, nor are we in the business of licensing closed-source forks
[2012/10/10 22:16] noe: benoitc: hmm?
[2012/10/10 22:16] benoitc: noe: this is a long time asked feature
[2012/10/10 22:16] dch: kocolosk: Adam for sure, I think personally I know exactly where you are coming from. But it might be useful to spell it out.
[2012/10/10 22:16] benoitc: can't rememebr the jira ticket
[2012/10/10 22:16] noe: benoitc: what is?
[2012/10/10 22:16] benoitc: but it is really old
[2012/10/10 22:16] noe: benoitc: i dunno what you're talking about
[2012/10/10 22:17] tilgovi: benoitc: I would review it. There's been a ticket for a long time, I think.
[2012/10/10 22:17] benoitc: noe: allowing you to get db events on http level
[2012/10/10 22:17] noe: benoitc: _db_updates?
[2012/10/10 22:17] noe: benoitc: i would find the ticket, update the "fix version" to 1.3 and post a rationale in the comments
[2012/10/10 22:17] jan____: benoitc: +1 on committing whenever. I want that feature bad
[2012/10/10 22:17] noe: benoitc: dch will be clearing out jira so that we can use this to track what's in and out for the next release
[2012/10/10 22:17] benoitc: noe: an handler to get all db events on HTTP replacing the old api only accessible on via stdin/stdout
[2012/10/10 22:18] noe: benoitc: yeah, im basically saying just go for it if you think so
[2012/10/10 22:18] noe: benoitc: like jan____ is :)
[2012/10/10 22:18] benoitc: ok for the ticket
[2012/10/10 22:18] dch: re build system, I don't think any committer has said NAY to OTP + rebar.
[2012/10/10 22:18] noe: nope
[2012/10/10 22:18] dch: and finding a way to wrap autotools into that
[2012/10/10 22:18] noe: i am sure we can figure it out
[2012/10/10 22:18] jan____: ack
[2012/10/10 22:18] kocolosk: that'd be great -- are our distro experts ok with it?
[2012/10/10 22:19] noe: that'd be me? and...?
[2012/10/10 22:19] dch: #info refer to https://github.com/seth/rebar-tools for dependency locking
[2012/10/10 22:19] kocolosk: it == bundling erlang instead of relying on the erlang debian package, for example
[2012/10/10 22:19] noe: ah. well, debian would not ship it like that for sure
[2012/10/10 22:19] wendall911: If build system doesn't get redone for 1.3. There is a bunch of cleanup that should happen. A lot of 0.9 era cruft still there. Was cleaned up considerably, but could use some attention.
[2012/10/10 22:19] tilgovi: we can find a way not to do that
[2012/10/10 22:19] noe: so i am not sure what downtream packages would do
[2012/10/10 22:19] kocolosk: noe: yeah, that's where i was headed
[2012/10/10 22:19] kocolosk: tilgovi: not to do what?
[2012/10/10 22:19] mainerror: Sorry for cross posting but is the Wiki down?
[2012/10/10 22:19] noe: wendall911: do you want to take point on that?
[2012/10/10 22:19] tilgovi: not to ship the bundled erlang
[2012/10/10 22:19] jan____: wendall911: do we have a summary or list of stuff that needs work?
[2012/10/10 22:19] noe: mainerror: ask in #asfinfra
[2012/10/10 22:20] tilgovi: in a downstream package
[2012/10/10 22:20] benoitc: it is possible to  use release with deb packaging system though
[2012/10/10 22:20] Wohali: distros won't want a bundled erlang, but a good packaging setup will support including it or not including it
[2012/10/10 22:20] wendall911: jan____: no, but I'll come up with a list from memory. I'm sure you remember a couple things that came up.
[2012/10/10 22:20] noe: yeah, packagers would have to figure out how to disentangle it
[2012/10/10 22:20] jan____: mainerror: http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/wiki.apache.org
[2012/10/10 22:20] tilgovi: What Wohali said
[2012/10/10 22:20] kocolosk: oof
[2012/10/10 22:20] wendall911: noe: yeah, I'd be cool with cleaning that up a bit.
[2012/10/10 22:20] noe: Wohali: ++!
[2012/10/10 22:20] kocolosk: ok
[2012/10/10 22:20] Wohali: debian packaging, sure. in debian's repos, not necessairly
[2012/10/10 22:20] noe: Wohali: +1
[2012/10/10 22:20] jan____: wendall911: awesome, put em in a mail or jira?
[2012/10/10 22:20] kocolosk: sounds like a load of fun
[2012/10/10 22:20] dch: let's not get too off track here.
[2012/10/10 22:21] Wohali: again i'm already signed up for packaging with wendall911, we can take that offline
[2012/10/10 22:21] wendall911: jan____: since it's from memory, I think -dev list to get feedback then JIRA
[2012/10/10 22:21] noe: wendall911: are you talking about build cruft?
[2012/10/10 22:21] wendall911: noe: yes
[2012/10/10 22:21] benoitc: you don't need to bundle erlang in a release : https://github.com/refuge/rcouch/tree/master/package/deb
[2012/10/10 22:21] dch: packaging & bundling erlang: my personal experience (& that of basho and IIRC cloudant) is we need to do it. The distro/packaging view might disagree.
[2012/10/10 22:21] jan____: wendall911: jira is copied to dev@ :D
[2012/10/10 22:21] tilgovi: is this still on topic?
[2012/10/10 22:21] mainerror: Thanks jan____
[2012/10/10 22:21] dch: tilgovi: no :-)
[2012/10/10 22:21] wendall911: jan____: ah, good point. Will start there.
[2012/10/10 22:21] jan____: wendall911: either way though
[2012/10/10 22:21] noe: #action wendall911 to take point on cleaning up build 0.9 cruft
[2012/10/10 22:21] dch: re merging forks, are we done? did we get any actions from that?
[2012/10/10 22:22] noe: #action Wohali to help wendall911 with build system work
[2012/10/10 22:22] Wohali: dch: Yup we're all in line here
[2012/10/10 22:22] noe: dch a few
[2012/10/10 22:22] noe: i think we're done folks.
[2012/10/10 22:22] noe: AOB?
[2012/10/10 22:22] dch: #action kocolosk to provide woolly update on how cloudant and bigcouch and couchdb fit together in the NEW WORLD ORDER
[2012/10/10 22:22] dch: yup
[2012/10/10 22:22] kocolosk: hah
[2012/10/10 22:22] noe: aob?
[2012/10/10 22:22] dch: I have 1
[2012/10/10 22:23] noe: shoot
[2012/10/10 22:23] dch: I am setting up a Learn to Hack on CouchDB / Erlang email list following in Wohali's footsteps, and based on my own shameless need to do better erlangs.
[2012/10/10 22:23] dch: I think a separate list would make sense.
[2012/10/10 22:23] dch: doing that on dev@ is going to be spammy
[2012/10/10 22:23] noe: erlang@couchdb.a.o?
[2012/10/10 22:24] dch: noe: that would be cool, maybe hack@ to avoid confusion with "how do I use couch"
[2012/10/10 22:24] dch: no idea how to set it up
[2012/10/10 22:24] noe: i can get it set up
[2012/10/10 22:24] dch: sweet
[2012/10/10 22:24] noe: if we agree its a good idea
[2012/10/10 22:24] dch: I agree
[2012/10/10 22:24] Wohali: i'll support it
[2012/10/10 22:24] noe: how about learn@couchdb or bootstrap@couchdb?
[2012/10/10 22:24] mainerror: +1
[2012/10/10 22:25] dch: bootstrap implies I'm running a startup
[2012/10/10 22:25] mainerror: +1 on hack@
[2012/10/10 22:25] noe: hehe, only if you have that experience
[2012/10/10 22:25] noe: i dont like hack
[2012/10/10 22:25] dch: notes the wine bottle is almost empty, as is our meeting timelimit
[2012/10/10 22:25] chewbranca: I'm interested in it as well, whatever the name
[2012/10/10 22:25] noe: lets not bikeshed tthe name
[2012/10/10 22:25] kocolosk: heh
[2012/10/10 22:25] benoitc: hum we shouldn'tn't have too much channels
[2012/10/10 22:25] noe: #action noe to set up a LYSE mailing list
[2012/10/10 22:25] wendall911: agrees with benoitc
[2012/10/10 22:25] dch: benoitc: agreed.
[2012/10/10 22:26] jan____: horse@couchdb.apache.org
[2012/10/10 22:26] noe: benoitc: if it fails it fails and we shut the list down
[2012/10/10 22:26] dch: ok any other bikeshed items?
[2012/10/10 22:26] mainerror: Definitely horse@
[2012/10/10 22:26] noe: why horse pls?
[2012/10/10 22:26] dch: horse@yourhairybutt
[2012/10/10 22:26] mainerror: :D
[2012/10/10 22:26] benoitc: right
[2012/10/10 22:26] noe: AOB?
[2012/10/10 22:26] dch: we are done
[2012/10/10 22:26] benoitc: i start to like this jira bit
[2012/10/10 22:26] mainerror: \o/
[2012/10/10 22:26] dch: hey everybody many thanks
[2012/10/10 22:26] noe: (any other business)
[2012/10/10 22:27] benoitc: bot
[2012/10/10 22:27] dch: this has been fun.
[2012/10/10 22:27] kocolosk: cheers, thanks for setting this up
[2012/10/10 22:27] noe: yep! cya all next weeeek
[2012/10/10 22:27] noe: #endmeeting
[2012/10/10 22:27] wendall911: Wohali: email or PM me about a future meeting time. I'm spent for today, but free tomorrow or friday.
[2012/10/10 22:27] dch: I'd like to thank my bot Noah Slater. We were sure he was a script, now its confirmed
}}}

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