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From Peter Kelly <pmke...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] committers == PPMC
Date Sat, 20 Dec 2014 05:02:38 GMT
Well as someone new to Apache I’m still not yet entirely sure of the rationale between having
a distinction between the two :)

I think for a small project like Corinthia is right now, it makes sense to have Committer
== PPMC. We want to build up the project community, and I see welcoming people and being inclusive
as being important pre-requisites to that.

If and when (hopefully when) the project gets larger and moves into a TLP, it may be appropriate
to have only a subset of participants on the PPC, depending on the number of committers and
their level of involvement with the project. As an open source project, I think we should
try to be as open and democratic as possible, and I’m in favour of using private lists only
where absolutely necessary.

I propose that during the incubation period, we have Committer == PPMC, and then we revisit
this discussion if & when we prepare to become a TLP.

—
Dr Peter M. Kelly
pmkelly@apache.org

PGP key: http://www.kellypmk.net/pgp-key <http://www.kellypmk.net/pgp-key>
(fingerprint 5435 6718 59F0 DD1F BFA0 5E46 2523 BAA1 44AE 2966)

> On 19 Dec 2014, at 11:57 pm, jan i <jani@apache.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi.
> 
> *Preamble:*
> 
> Sorry about the fuzz, but we have to do things right, and I started this
> discussion from a wrong perspective.
> 
> In my opinion it is the community as a whole who decide (within the limits
> of the bylaws) how our PPMC shall operate, therefore this discussion is an
> open discussion.
> 
> As initial committers we are all PPMC, so this discussion is solely about
> new people coming to the project.
> 
> 
> 
> *Discussion starting point:*
> For a small project like ours, there are no logical reason to make a
> difference between being committer and PPMC. I believe it can be directly
> harmful to the project.
> 
> Example (another project): In budapest we were 6 people gathered around a
> table discussion the future of the project. 3 PMC, 1 committer (but ASF
> member) and 2 committers.....We had to stop the discussion several times,
> due to the fact "oooh this happened on the private list", I still wonder
> how the 2 committers felt...I know I would have felt being held out.
> 
> What is the downside of this rule, with time we might get a big PMC (after
> graduation) and lots of discussions, some see this as negative, I see it as
> healthy...Apache is not about a few ruling the project, but the whole
> community doing it together.
> 
> I must emphasize, I am NOT suggesting to bend or change any voting rules
> but simply to implement a procedure !!
> 
> My suggestion is, that we as community, ask the PPMC to always vote if a
> candidate should be PPMC+committer using the strictest voting rules (right
> now 3 PPMC +1 and no -1).
> 
> The invitation letter, should be an invitation to join both as committer
> and PPMC, but give an option so the candidate can choose only to be a
> committer.
> 
> If we want this, it can be implemented in 2 ways:
> 1) A convention, where we simply ask the PPMC to always do it like this
> - here a vote is not really needed, because the PPMC can decide to follow
> it or not.
> 2) A Rule, where the PPMC have to do it.
> - here a vote is really needed (and one with a clear majority and NONE
> against it).
> 
> Thoughts ?
> 
> 
> rgds
> jan i.


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