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From jan i <>
Subject [DISCUSS] committers == PPMC
Date Fri, 19 Dec 2014 16:57:52 GMT


Sorry about the fuzz, but we have to do things right, and I started this
discussion from a wrong perspective.

In my opinion it is the community as a whole who decide (within the limits
of the bylaws) how our PPMC shall operate, therefore this discussion is an
open discussion.

As initial committers we are all PPMC, so this discussion is solely about
new people coming to the project.

*Discussion starting point:*
For a small project like ours, there are no logical reason to make a
difference between being committer and PPMC. I believe it can be directly
harmful to the project.

Example (another project): In budapest we were 6 people gathered around a
table discussion the future of the project. 3 PMC, 1 committer (but ASF
member) and 2 committers.....We had to stop the discussion several times,
due to the fact "oooh this happened on the private list", I still wonder
how the 2 committers felt...I know I would have felt being held out.

What is the downside of this rule, with time we might get a big PMC (after
graduation) and lots of discussions, some see this as negative, I see it as
healthy...Apache is not about a few ruling the project, but the whole
community doing it together.

I must emphasize, I am NOT suggesting to bend or change any voting rules
but simply to implement a procedure !!

My suggestion is, that we as community, ask the PPMC to always vote if a
candidate should be PPMC+committer using the strictest voting rules (right
now 3 PPMC +1 and no -1).

The invitation letter, should be an invitation to join both as committer
and PPMC, but give an option so the candidate can choose only to be a

If we want this, it can be implemented in 2 ways:
1) A convention, where we simply ask the PPMC to always do it like this
- here a vote is not really needed, because the PPMC can decide to follow
it or not.
2) A Rule, where the PPMC have to do it.
- here a vote is really needed (and one with a clear majority and NONE
against it).

Thoughts ?

jan i.

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