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From julio cesar sanchez <jcesarmob...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?
Date Tue, 29 Mar 2016 11:29:58 GMT
Joe said:

"I also find it interesting that people are hating on Cordova, and not
PhoneGap, Ionic, Taco or the other distributions."

It's curious that Ionic has it's own tag, with about the same number of
questions that Cordova tag, but it's not on any of the lists (and it's not
because all Ionic questios are tagged with Cordova tag too, in fact, most
of them aren't)

But when people is using Phonegap and add the Phonegap tag to the question,
stack overflow replaces it with a Cordova tag because they decided long
time ago that they were synonyms, so you can't use Phonegap tag and we
can't be sure if they are using Cordova or Phonegap unless they tell it on
the question.

I think that's a mistake by stack overflow part, because people using
phonegap doesn't follow same workflow that people using cordova as Phonegap
docs are different, they mostly use the developer app to test, and phonegap
users might have different problems.

There are a lot of questions about  "xxxx-xxxx 3rd party plugin isn't
working on my app", and the problem is they are using the phonegap
developer app. But they don't mention that they are using phonegap, they
just add the phonegap tag, and stack overflow replaces it with a Cordova
tag. They don't mention that they are using the Phonegap developer app
neither because they think that's the way of running Phonegap apps. I see
at least one of those everyday on stack overflow or some other forums.

I've filed a few issues on the phonegap docs page so they can make clearer
to users that when using the phonegap developer app they are not really
running their app, and they have some issues open to list the developer app
limitations. Once they are addressed, maybe the developers are a bit
happier.

But I'm not sure what to do about the stack overflow synonym, should we
tell them to remove the synonym so people can use Phonegap and Cordova as
different tags?




2016-03-29 8:23 GMT+02:00 Robert Posener <rposener8@gmail.com>:

> I think I have created a discussion, but it is not showing up... yet
> another frustrations!
>
> Rob
>
> Regards
> *Rob Posener*
> 0419 012 627
>
> On 29 March 2016 at 16:48, Parashuram N <panarasi@microsoft.com> wrote:
>
> > I am not sure if everyone got the attachment. Rob, can I request  you to
> > create an issue on https://github.com/cordova/cordova-discuss so that we
> > could start following up on specific issues there ?
> >
> > From: Robert Posener <rposener8@gmail.com>
> > Reply-To: "dev@cordova.apache.org" <dev@cordova.apache.org>
> > Date: Monday, March 28, 2016 at 10:08 PM
> > To: "dev@cordova.apache.org" <dev@cordova.apache.org>
> > Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?
> >
> > Gerday all,
> > Because of the serious nature of this thread, I have produced a 6-page
> > contribution of issues together with recommendations for fixing them in
> the
> > attachment to this email.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Rob Posener
> >
> > Regards
> > Rob Posener
> > 0419 012 627
> >
> > On 19 March 2016 at 08:31, Joe Bowser <bowserj@gmail.com<mailto:
> > bowserj@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > I don't entirely agree with this, since usually we do respond.  We don't
> > just accept things that get thrown at us, which I think is the
> expectation.
> >
> > I think we need to make sure we come to some resolution and actually
> solve
> > the problem in a timely manner.  We've had both extremes of discussing a
> > problem to death and cowboy coding, and neither extreme works well.
> >
> > As for getting there, I have no idea.  Any thoughts?
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 18, 2016, 2:23 PM Raghav Katyal <rakatyal@microsoft.com
> > <mailto:rakatyal@microsoft.com>> wrote:
> >
> > > I guess responding to JIRA quickly and acting on contributors' PRs
> could
> > > be candidates for improvement.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Nikhil Khandelwal [mailto:nikhilkh@microsoft.com<mailto:
> > nikhilkh@microsoft.com>]
> > > Sent: Friday, March 18, 2016 11:18 AM
> > > To: dev@cordova.apache.org<mailto:dev@cordova.apache.org>
> > > Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?
> > >
> > > I have been guilty of not spending too much time on stackoverflow
> > > answering questions. It’s on my TODO list. For those who have, what are
> > > there general themes of improvement here that will make a huge impact?
> > >
> > > I remember Julio summarized this last year [1] and I believe we have
> made
> > > progress on a lot of these – docs, PATH setup. Though the impact of our
> > > docs work is yet to be seen – we just did a big update in terms of
> > > organization [2]. There’s probably more to be done in terms of docs –
> > > tutorials, examples for plugin API usage, integration with other tools
> > like
> > > gulp, browserify etc. What are other good candidates for improvement?
> > >
> > > I found it interesting that our own survey [3] in October had somewhat
> > > high Net promoter score (NPS).
> > >
> > > [1]
> > >
> >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fmail-archives.apache.org%2fmod_mbox%2fcordova-dev%2f201504.mbox%2f%253CetPan.552c9004.643c9869.b8b8%40Kerris-MacBook-Pro.local%253E&data=01%7c01%7crakatyal%40microsoft.com%7c1371f56d47e84d4fb7c808d34f59b0e9%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=dPkMBS3I8mA7uqmezeLaxknf4ujYsmymcco50y9piYg%3d
> > > [2]
> > >
> >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fcordova.apache.org%2fannouncements%2f2016%2f03%2f03%2fdocs-improvement.html&data=01%7c01%7crakatyal%40microsoft.com%7c1371f56d47e84d4fb7c808d34f59b0e9%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=fYJCb131SFY%2bAA0RS2cxrDyf3m74EAHSGPuhd6oR7xo%3d
> > > [3]
> > >
> >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fapachecordovabot.typeform.com%2freport%2fBCc5co%2fJQLG&data=01%7c01%7crakatyal%40microsoft.com%7c1371f56d47e84d4fb7c808d34f59b0e9%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=eH8cPNyXnPD2ltm%2bKbFfLCq4ifGQeBItD5rAXbgSOhg%3d
> > >
> > > On 3/17/16, 5:55 PM, "Carlos Santana" <csantana23@gmail.com<mailto:
> > csantana23@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > >
> > > >I agree Joe
> > > >
> > > >It's easy to create a stackoverflow subscription that emails you once
> a
> > > >day.
> > > >
> > > >I have one that covers "cordova" "worklight" "mobilefirst"
> > > >
> > > >I tried to answer what I can, but reading it daily which is not every
> > > >day that I get something probably most every other day with a few.
> > > >
> > > >At least reading all the new questions gives me a sense on what people
> > > >are having problems on.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 8:46 PM Joe Bowser <bowserj@gmail.com<mailto:
> > bowserj@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> BTW: The last one was a joke.  But in all honesty, we should all
> > > >> spend a bit more time on Stack seeing what's going on there with our
> > > >> respective products/distributions.
> > > >>
> > > >> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:43 PM, Joe Bowser <bowserj@gmail.com
> > <mailto:bowserj@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:23 PM, Ryan J. Salva
> > > >> > <rsalva@microsoft.com<mailto:rsalva@microsoft.com>>
> > > >> > wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> >> Keep in mind that the answers are limited to the technologies
> that
> > > >> >> Stack Overflow chooses to offer in their list of options.
They
> have
> > > an "other"
> > > >> >> option with a text box, but people's answers are largely
driven
> by
> > > >> >> the checkbox options.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>
> > > >> > So, we somehow pissed off the Stack Overflow guys???
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> Ryan J. Salva  |  Principal PM Manager Visual Studio Tools
for
> > > >> >> Apache Cordova rsalva@microsoft.com<mailto:rsalva@microsoft.com>
> > > >> >> 425 706 5270<tel:425%20706%205270> office
> > > >> >> 206 612 5079<tel:206%20612%205079> mobile
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> -----Original Message-----
> > > >> >> From: Joe Bowser [mailto:bowserj@gmail.com<mailto:
> > bowserj@gmail.com>]
> > > >> >> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 5:21 PM
> > > >> >> To: dev <dev@cordova.apache.org<mailto:dev@cordova.apache.org>>
> > > >> >> Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers
happy?
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:12 PM, Ryan J. Salva
> > > >> >> <rsalva@microsoft.com<mailto:rsalva@microsoft.com>>
> > > >> >> wrote:
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> > As I told some of my co-workers today:
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > If you read the fine print, the actual statistic is
“% of
> > > >> >> > developers who are developing with the language or tech
but
> have
> > > >> >> > not expressed interest in continuing to do so.” Clearly,
it’s
> > > >> >> > not a good list to be on, but developer behavior also
doesn’t
> > > reflect their stated intent.
> > > >> >> > NPM Stats show the number of Cordova downloads has actually
> > > >> >> > doubled since the same time last year.
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > Again, I don’t think this is a good list to appear
on… I’m just
> > > >> >> > not sure what to make of it given developer behavior.
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> I'd rather be on that list instead of not be on any list.
 I'd be
> > > >> >> more concerned with the fact that we're on the "Losers" section
> of
> > > >> >> the
> > > >> trending
> > > >> >> tech with a 7% decrease in the number of questions, which
> indicate
> > > >> >> that people either have no problems (not very likely) or
are just
> > > >> >> giving
> > > >> up.  I
> > > >> >> haven't been answering questions on Stack for a while, mostly
> > > >> >> because they're using some third party framework like ionic
or
> > > something else.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> I also find it interesting that people are hating on Cordova,
and
> > > >> >> not PhoneGap, Ionic, Taco or the other distributions.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > Ryan J. Salva  |  Principal PM Manager Visual Studio
Tools for
> > > >> >> > Apache Cordova rsalva@microsoft.com<mailto:
> rsalva@microsoft.com>
> > > >> >> > 425 706 5270<tel:425%20706%205270> office
> > > >> >> > 206 612 5079<tel:206%20612%205079> mobile
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > -----Original Message-----
> > > >> >> > From: Joe Bowser [mailto:bowserj@gmail.com<mailto:
> > bowserj@gmail.com>]
> > > >> >> > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 5:08 PM
> > > >> >> > To: dev <dev@cordova.apache.org<mailto:dev@cordova.apache.org
> >>
> > > >> >> > Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers
> happy?
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:03 PM, Jesse <
> purplecabbage@gmail.com
> > <mailto:purplecabbage@gmail.com>>
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > > Never trust people's answers when you ask them
what they
> like!
> > > >> >> > > They are almost always wrong, and will tell you
what they
> > > >> >> > > think they like, or think they will seem cooler
if they
> liked.
> > > >> >> > >
> > > >> >> > >
> > > >> >> > +1
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > It's interesting that CoffeeScript is on this list and
that it
> > > >> >> > passed Cordova in most dreaded.  I also wonder what
would
> happen
> > > >> >> > if we went on the WordPress mailing list and talked
about how
> > > >> >> > people were so unhappy with WordPress.
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > >
> > > >> >> > > > On Mar 17, 2016, at 5:04 AM, julio cesar sanchez
> > > >> >> > > > <jcesarmobile@gmail.com<mailto:jcesarmobile@gmail.com>>
> > > >> >> > > wrote:
> > > >> >> > > >
> > > >> >> > > > 2016 survey is out
> > > >> >> > > >
> > > >> >> > > > Most Dreaded technologies:
> > > >> >> > > >
> > > >> >> > > > Visual Basic            79.5%
> > > >> >> > > > WordPress              74.3%
> > > >> >> > > > Matlab                     72.8%
> > > >> >> > > > Sharepoint              72.1%
> > > >> >> > > > CoffeeScript            71.0%
> > > >> >> > > > LAMP                      68.7%
> > > >> >> > > > Cordova                  66.9%
> > > >> >> > > > Salesforce               65.4%
> > > >> >> > > > Other                       61.5%
> > > >> >> > > > Perl                         61.3%
> > > >> >> > > > SQL Server & SQL 60.3%
> > > >> >> > > > Objective-C             60.2%
> > > >> >> > > >
> > > >> >> > > >
> > > >> >> > >
> > > >>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fsta
> > > >> >> > > ck
> > > >> >> > >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=overflow.co
> > > >> >> > > m&data=01%7c01%7cnikhilkh%40microsoft.com<
> >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2f40microsoft.com&data=01%7c01%7cpanarasi%40microsoft.com%7c20fc82f3ba714a76598f08d357903443%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=2%2bVpHbmRiliHb7I3VGioCumGY%2bzbp5%2bwlB8NmHBB5Rs%3d
> > >%7cf296b880892e437222
> > > >> >> > >
> 3b08d34ec812d5%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=w7
> > > >> >> > > c9NLd0Zo0MFjcJaXEXjEuljJxh2fs5OGv9FurbcTk%3d
> > > >> %2fresearch%2fdeveloper-survey-2016%23technology-most-lo
> > > >> >> > > ve
> > > >> >> > > d-dreaded-and-wanted&data=01%7c01%7crsalva%40microsoft.com<
> >
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2f40microsoft.com&data=01%7c01%7cpanarasi%40microsoft.com%7c20fc82f3ba714a76598f08d357903443%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=2%2bVpHbmRiliHb7I3VGioCumGY%2bzbp5%2bwlB8NmHBB5Rs%3d
> > >
> > > >> %7c342aabb
> > > >> >> > > 95
> > > >> >> > >
> ca84607ba2608d34ec16bfe%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1
> > > >> >> > > &sdata =x SvTHrkLQ7Z4Z7CTctZ4rjFxaznfrPKVjqCkMzcUIpk%3d
> > > >> >> > >
> > > >> >> > >
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >> >> > > ------
> > > >> >> > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@cordova.apache.org
> > <mailto:dev-unsubscribe@cordova.apache.org>
> > > >> >> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@cordova.apache.org
> > <mailto:dev-help@cordova.apache.org>
> > > >> >> > >
> > > >> >> > >
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >  B
> KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKCB
> > >   [  X  ܚX K  K[XZ[
> > >    ] ][  X  ܚX P  ܙ ݘK \ X  K ܙ B  ܈ Y  ] [ۘ[    [X[     K[XZ[
> > >    ] Z [    ܙ ݘK \ X  K ܙ B
> > >
> >
> >
>

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