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From Frederico Galvão <>
Subject Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?
Date Fri, 28 Aug 2015 20:00:45 GMT
Hi, I'm from Brazil, been working with javascript seriously since 2008, and
have known and worked with cordova since 2012, and I'd also like to give my
50 cent on this.

I won't dig deep in the topic right now (but I'm willing to), but I have
said a few times that the issue with cordova is a <marketing> one, in the
sense that it does a bad job at telling users what it does or does not.

I'm still against calling cordova/Phonegap/PB a framework of any sort, as
it doesn't require you to write code in any specific way and also doesn't
generate actual application code. I'd rather have it be called a tool or a
lib. More a tool than a lib (unless you're using CordovaActivity/WebView on
your own).

Misplaced expectations made too many "web developers" (the sort that thinks
that jQuery is a programming language or that Facebook invented web
development with React, I'm sorry) think cordova would instantly solve all
existing problems on the way to mobility. And then we have these questions
on SO or forums all over. And then we have these articles calling cordova
<slow> (it would be the same as saying that projects built with gulp ran
faster than projects build with grunt, they don't, they don't generate
actual application code by themselves).

I've presented more than a few times on different local developer groups
and events, and with time I noticed this had become the main point of what
I was telling people, because that's what they wanted to hear:
Cordova is not a framework, it will NOT generate actual application code
for you (but a shell instead), and it does NOT guarantee UX/UI/feature

Nevertheless, I completely agree with the fact that a better flow for the
docs would solve/mitigate a huge chunk of the issues we see currently, and
very often do I find myself trying to picture a better flow, but I could
not yet (lack of time and/or proper thought gathering). As a developer
myself, and a curious one, I ended up going deeper into cordova development
process so that I could understand what was being made directly from the
"source" (this mailing list, for example, which I've been following for
more than a year). For a while, I used to check every commit on all
projects that I was affected by (android, ios, lib, js, doc) and even some
of the distant ones (wp8, ubuntu, coho), and even follow every issue on
jira for CB, and that's what built up my deep understanding of cordova as a
whole. The docs alone, in it's current stage, could never achieve such
enlightening, and I think it should.

Please, take this topic forward, let's all do something about it.

PS: The presentation I ended up using more than a couple of times is
available here
, but I am sorry to say it's not available in english as of right now.
Please feel free to contact me for anything related, I'll be glad to help!

2015-08-28 8:50 GMT-03:00 Tammo Schimanski <>:

> Hey Julio,
> I already did some translation via Crowdin. For Plugins as also for the
> main files. But unfortunately i also don’t have enough time to do the
> translation for all plugins and the main files. :-/
> Just had a look onto the prices for flights… i think, i can’t come, thats
> realy to expensive.
> The german documentation is very bad. It is not only bad translated, it is
> so bad that you’re sometimes are not able to understand what is meant.
> Maybe i can invest some hours at the next weekend to do some translation
> again.
> It feels good to have contact to other people who are also interested in
> helping new users :-)
> Greetings from Germany,
> Tammo
> Am [DATE] schrieb "julio cesar sanchez" <[ADDRESS]>:
> >Hi Tammo, great iniciative!
> >
> >I tried to do the same for spanish speakers, but I rarely have time to
> >write tutorials.
> >
> >"not all german developers are able to ask a question in english (although
> >you might thought that they are)."
> >
> >Yeah, on Spain we are told that ALL other european contries speak english
> >well because they learn since childhood.
> >
> >Have you checked the german documentation? is it good? maybe you can
> >contribute with the translation
> >
> >
> >About the face 2 face meeting, this was mentioned on that thread:
> >
> >"Also, just to be clear, we are not explicitly limiting this to committers
> >- anyone interested in the development of the project is welcome. However,
> >I am guessing that we will not be talking basics of Cordova, so this may
> >not be a meeting to learn about Cordova or how to use it."
> >
> >So, you have to judge yourself if it can be of your interest.
> >
> >
> >P.S: I'm a "small" person too, but we all can contribute.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >2015-08-28 12:17 GMT+02:00 Tammo Schimanski <
> >:
> >
> >> Hello to all of you from Germany,
> >> i never wrote an e-mail to this list before but i want to tell you
> >> something about the situation over here.
> >>
> >> I started developing applications with Cordova two years ago. It wasn’t
> >> easy to understand how Cordova works and how it has to be used. The docs
> >> didn’t help me enough so that i had to spend many hours in watching
> video
> >> tutorials on youtube and read many articles about the cordova workflow.
> >>
> >> After i developed applications for over a year, i decided to found a
> >> german community which helps users who feel like i felt a year ago. At
> the
> >> End of 2014 i wrote e-mails to apache, registered domains and invested
> many
> >> hours in research and writing tutorials, blog articles and so on. Down
> to
> >> the present day the main Tutorials (iOS & Android) were viewed over
> 40.000
> >> times. We have about 800 visits a day and are helping all people with
> their
> >> questions inside the board. Stackoverflow is also a great way to help
> >> people but not all german developers are able to ask a question in
> english
> >> (although you might thought that they are).
> >>
> >> My target ever was to help people who are sitting in front of their
> >> computers and thinking „hey… why aren’t you working cordova“ or „why
> >> doesn’t it work like expected“? In spring 2015 my colleague and i
> decided
> >> to make all a bit more professional. We weren’t satisfied by the website
> >> because all was a bit heavy to find (Tutorials etc.) and it was not
> state
> >> of the art. Again: E-Mails to apache, registered a new domain and now
> we’re
> >> starting a big project under (first look for you:
> >> I had to rewrite all tutorials, because its still
> >> our aim to make it understandable and clear for everyone! Till now we
> spent
> >> already over 250 hours together for the new project - but it is no
> problem:
> >> We love cordova! The Project will start at the end of September this
> year.
> >> Cordova is a possibility for companys creating a new branch. Every
> >> websitedeveloper is able to develop applications with Cordova - but not
> >> every Developer knows this. We want to spread cordova to every developer
> >> inside Germany!
> >>
> >> So yes, why am i writing you this all? I think, in comparison to you
> i’m a
> >> small person. If i see all the people here getting e-mails to @
> >>, and so on…yes, i’m a small person. I just
> want
> >> to let you know, that if we can do anything from the other side of the
> big
> >> pond: Please let us know - we’re here, waiting for your instructions
> :-).
> >>
> >> I don’t know if this „Cordova face to face meeting“ is open for all but
> my
> >> colleague and i thought about coming to that meeting. Only because we’re
> >> interested into getting a deeper look into things and because we both
> want
> >> to get better and better. The better we get, the better we can help the
> >> users in understanding cordova.
> >>
> >> Belonging to the topic, Stackoverflow, frustration etc. - i understand
> >> Jesse Monroy. A big problem is that in many cases you just can post
> links
> >> „look here“ „read this“ etc. and if you give a detailed answer, you’ll
> >> never hear something again from that user like „worked for me“ or „no
> this
> >> doesn’t work“. Thats why we also created a „first steps in cordova“
> guide
> >> on our new website in which all mistakes which can be done are
> explained.
> >>
> >> Okay so… at least, sorry if something is unclear or understandable. I
> hope
> >> that it was at least a little bit interesting for you to get some
> feedback
> >> from Germany.
> >>
> >> Greetings from
> >> Tammo Schimanski
> >>
> >>
> >> E-Mail:       
> >> Phone / Whatsapp:       + 49 162 40 98 169
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Am [DATE] schrieb "julio cesar sanchez" <[ADDRESS]>:
> >>
> >> >I would like to bring this topic back because I've seen two things
> >> recently
> >> >that worried me
> >> >
> >> >First one on the google group "Frustration in the forum"
> >> >!topic/phonegap/D7ydf_hNq-w
> >> >
> >> >Second one, increasing number of unanswered questions on stackoverflow
> >> >(from
> >> >
> >> >cordova Questions
> >> >259        Last 7 Days       79.9% unanswered
> >> >1,172     Last 30 Days     75.7% unanswered
> >> >37,119   All Time             46.4% unanswered
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >I think it's related with the "Frustration in the forum", a lot of
> >> >questions are from newbiews and low quality so nobody answer them (not
> >> sure
> >> >if this happens with other tags or just with cordova)
> >>
> >>
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*Frederico Galvão*

Diretor de Tecnologia

PontoGet Inovação Web

( +55(62) 8131-5720

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