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From "Ryan J. Salva" <rsa...@microsoft.com>
Subject Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?
Date Sat, 29 Aug 2015 21:30:25 GMT
Tammo,

Sorry you won't be able to make it. We would have loved to have you here. For at least part
of the meetup, we'll host an online meeting for others to join remotely. Maybe you can join
that way? Stay tuned for details. 

rjs

Sent from a mobile device. 

> On Aug 29, 2015, at 6:58 AM, Tammo Schimanski <tammo.schimanski@cordova.de> wrote:
> 
> Hey Tim and thanks for your reply!
> 
> I already looked for flights but i think it’s a bit too short now. Flights from here
to america are at about 800€ ( approx. 900$) + a cheap Hotel and i’m over 1.000$ which
is unfortunately to expensive for me. Being a member of this e-mail list now helps me a lot
to understand whats happening in the background.
> 
> If there is a small summary from the face 2 face meeting, i would be happy to get that.

> 
> Nice Weekend for you all!
> 
> Tammo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Am [DATE] schrieb "Tim Barham" <[ADDRESS]>:
> 
>> Thanks for this info, Tammo - this is all great stuff, and it sounds like the German
Cordova community owes you a lot! I have a couple of comments:
>> 
>> 1. In the Cordova community (or any Apache community), nobody should consider themselves
a small person :). Individual contributions are what Apache projects are all about (or should
be). While some of us might have https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=microsoft.com&data=01%7c01%7crsalva%40microsoft.com%7c4f314fdcd9cf4028207008d2b079de75%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1fXDJGl53w%2fiT8BiTLN1NeTA6UVbKljY3KsrWEOrPLY%3d
or https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=intel.com&data=01%7c01%7crsalva%40microsoft.com%7c4f314fdcd9cf4028207008d2b079de75%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=j6mrQnVDUAEG71wtBh7aXc8JkuDeFqucwH2HPj0uLAA%3d
or https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=adobe.com&data=01%7c01%7crsalva%40microsoft.com%7c4f314fdcd9cf4028207008d2b079de75%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=Oq12Zq%2bbpIgcEqaLbyjkEpfT9GFfTbPK7LIU1oHSxpY%3d
email addresses, in the long run our contributions are no more important than anybody else's
(we just have the good fortune of doing it for our day job :) ). 
>> 
>> 2. I know this was already mentioned by Julio, but it seems to me you would definitely
be welcome at the face 2 face meeting if you felt it might be of benefit. It sounds to me
like it would be a great opportunity if you could make it.
>> 
>> Tim
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Tammo Schimanski [mailto:tammo.schimanski@cordova.de] 
>> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2015 8:17 PM
>> To: dev@cordova.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?
>> 
>> Hello to all of you from Germany,
>> i never wrote an e-mail to this list before but i want to tell you something about
the situation over here.
>> 
>> I started developing applications with Cordova two years ago. It wasn’t easy to
understand how Cordova works and how it has to be used. The docs didn’t help me enough so
that i had to spend many hours in watching video tutorials on youtube and read many articles
about the cordova workflow.
>> 
>> After i developed applications for over a year, i decided to found a german community
which helps users who feel like i felt a year ago. At the End of 2014 i wrote e-mails to apache,
registered domains and invested many hours in research and writing tutorials, blog articles
and so on. Down to the present day the main Tutorials (iOS & Android) were viewed over
40.000 times. We have about 800 visits a day and are helping all people with their questions
inside the board. Stackoverflow is also a great way to help people but not all german developers
are able to ask a question in english (although you might thought that they are).
>> 
>> My target ever was to help people who are sitting in front of their computers and
thinking „hey… why aren’t you working cordova“ or „why doesn’t it work like expected“?
In spring 2015 my colleague and i decided to make all a bit more professional. We weren’t
satisfied by the website because all was a bit heavy to find (Tutorials etc.) and it was not
state of the art. Again: E-Mails to apache, registered a new domain and now we’re starting
a big project under https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.cordova.de&data=01%7c01%7cTBARHAM%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c92b01a5e6bba44c1208608d2af91e9ab%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=DWV2Gp%2btg2ekG6MvC1Ra9IMfFh3ceDWQUwjrRFAjaXM%3d
(first look for you: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.cordova.de%2fdev&data=01%7c01%7cTBARHAM%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c92b01a5e6bba44c1208608d2af91e9ab%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=AX4broDgZmgkyx6ljiVci1OTd%2fMRkZXM7KqK3ECA%2bzc%3d).
I had to rewrite all tutorials, because its still our aim to make it understandable and clear
for everyone! Till now we spent already over 250 hours together for the new project - but
it is no problem: We love cordova! The Project will start at the end of September this year.
Cordova is a possibility for companys creating a new branch. Every websitedeveloper is able
to develop applications with Cordova - but not every Developer knows this. We want to spread
cordova to every developer inside Germany!
>> 
>> So yes, why am i writing you this all? I think, in comparison to you i’m a small
person. If i see all the people here getting e-mails to @https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=microsoft.com&data=01%7c01%7cTBARHAM%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c92b01a5e6bba44c1208608d2af91e9ab%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=TkAyBoWRDD87phXTuwk5Ut4kRD1pf9yEqaKc0OoZ2Rs%3d,
@https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=intel.com&data=01%7c01%7cTBARHAM%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c92b01a5e6bba44c1208608d2af91e9ab%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=3ZP1F9eBjoU68%2bRDamnegwZ3kszlp%2baOveRcsDlyIVI%3d
and so on…yes, i’m a small person. I just want to let you know, that if we can do anything
from the other side of the big pond: Please let us know - we’re here, waiting for your instructions
:-). 
>> 
>> I don’t know if this „Cordova face to face meeting“ is open for all but my
colleague and i thought about coming to that meeting. Only because we’re interested into
getting a deeper look into things and because we both want to get better and better. The better
we get, the better we can help the users in understanding cordova. 
>> 
>> Belonging to the topic, Stackoverflow, frustration etc. - i understand Jesse Monroy.
A big problem is that in many cases you just can post links „look here“ „read this“
etc. and if you give a detailed answer, you’ll never hear something again from that user
like „worked for me“ or „no this doesn’t work“. Thats why we also created a „first
steps in cordova“ guide on our new website in which all mistakes which can be done are explained.
>> 
>> Okay so… at least, sorry if something is unclear or understandable. I hope that
it was at least a little bit interesting for you to get some feedback from Germany.
>> 
>> Greetings from
>> Tammo Schimanski
>> 
>> 
>> E-Mail:        tammo.schimanski@cordova.de
>> Phone / Whatsapp:    + 49 162 40 98 169 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Am [DATE] schrieb "julio cesar sanchez" <[ADDRESS]>:
>> 
>>> I would like to bring this topic back because I've seen two things 
>>> recently that worried me
>>> 
>>> First one on the google group "Frustration in the forum"
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fgroups
>>> .google.com%2fforum%2f%23!topic%2fphonegap%2fD7ydf_hNq-w&data=01%7c01%7
>>> cTBARHAM%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c92b01a5e6bba44c1208608d2af91e9ab%7c
>>> 72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1Oi55qjHPNIa93Qwhn%2fglWTziW
>>> 1vY8ZcKxp8M3JHRZ4%3d
>>> 
>>> Second one, increasing number of unanswered questions on stackoverflow 
>>> (from 
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fstackov
>>> erflow.com%2ftags%2fcordova%2ftopusers&data=01%7c01%7cTBARHAM%40064d.mg
>>> d.microsoft.com%7c92b01a5e6bba44c1208608d2af91e9ab%7c72f988bf86f141af91
>>> ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=ePFNX11aAOUF%2frRpMUGvDlMuuVNxbzVoqRb07hTzGHM%
>>> 3d)
>>> 
>>> cordova Questions
>>> 259        Last 7 Days       79.9% unanswered
>>> 1,172     Last 30 Days     75.7% unanswered
>>> 37,119   All Time             46.4% unanswered
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I think it's related with the "Frustration in the forum", a lot of 
>>> questions are from newbiews and low quality so nobody answer them (not 
>>> sure if this happens with other tags or just with cordova)
>> 
>> 
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