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From Joe Bowser <bows...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?
Date Fri, 10 Apr 2015 01:05:10 GMT
On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 4:33 PM Carlos Santana <csantana23@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> Joe,
>    I respect you man, and I respect freedom of speech, but respecting that
> doesn't mean I agree with your hard opinions about ASF.
> So far we have had some wins like getting PR on github, commits messages
> sync with jira, and posting cordova code on npm. If hypothetically we moved
> out of ASF, I think it will be wise to still be under a Foundation, there
> are there to protect and have benefits, and will demand technical and legal
> process to be in place. it's just part of being a good and healthy open
> source project.
>
>
For the record, I agree that we should still be in a foundation.  The whole
reason we wound up in the ASF in the first place was the fact that we
needed a place to go to establish that neutrality and everything else was
too tied to a particular technology.  The ASF was sort of an
any-port-in-a-storm kind of situation.

All foundations have their flaws, their warts and their internal politics.
That said, I do think the grass is greener elsewhere.  I'm clearly in the
minority, and since people value the opinion of the person who never wrote
a line of code in Cordova over my own, I'll cede that I lost this battle.

If people are still interested in my opinion of the ASF, and why we
shouldn't be a part of it, they can contact me off-list.  This is really
far off-topic, and not productive.


> So as final thought, I want to be positive to work with ASF, and just
> continue to improve the project even if takes a bit of time and talking
> with ASF to do so.
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 4:18 PM, Brian LeRoux <b@brian.io> wrote:
>
> > I should note not all the membership is the same. We do have many
> > supporters at the ASF and from a high level the organization is
> incredible
> > and important. I don't regret our choice to move here and do think things
> > are changing for the better. (Albeit too slowly for my liking.) Consensus
> > is hard. The ASF predates software as a service for developer tools and
> > most of the policy was (until recently) ambiguous if not outright
> > undocumented. Change is happening so I'm opting to be optimistic. Most
> ppl
> > that still write code recognize the importance of continuous delivery and
> > release automation. Some them realize that those things are not
> existential
> > threats even. We'll get there.
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 9, 2015, 12:56 PM Brian LeRoux <b@brian.io> wrote:
> >
> > > Oh we tried to help. And yes we asked. We were very rudely treated. On
> > and
> > > off list. (Or, I was anyhow.)
> > >
> > > I'm all for being positive, and I generally am, but I am also not
> > > interested in perpetuating a revisionist narrative about how apache has
> > > been great to work with. I have always maintained a professional
> dialogue
> > > even when receiving personal attacks and threats. The records show that
> > and
> > > I can sleep at night.
> > >
> > > Can that change? I continue to hope so. Not even a month ago I was
> > > harassed by a member. I'll be at apachecon to discuss f2f since email
> had
> > > proven to be a terrible medium so far.
> > >
> > > On Thu, Apr 9, 2015, 12:47 PM Andrew Grieve <agrieve@chromium.org>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Apache provides a lot of benefit. I don't want elaborate right now,
> but
> > I
> > >> will promise to post back with some formulated thoughts a bit later
> > (some
> > >> of this I'm prepping for my ApacheCon talk, so I need to do it
> anyways).
> > >>
> > >> Joe - Please please *please* do not write emails that are not
> > >> constructive.
> > >> If you want to be negative, don't hit the send button. If not for the
> > sake
> > >> of others, for the sake of yourself - saying negative things about
> > others
> > >> almost always ends up making you look worse than those you are being
> > >> negative towards.
> > >>
> > >> Another angle:
> > >> Even if you are convinced that you're right, and even though your
> views
> > >> are
> > >> your own (although statements like "Or we could just leave the ASF"
> make
> > >> it
> > >> sound like you are representing more than that), your tone often just
> > >> makes
> > >> people want to run away rather than engage. Would you want to
> contribute
> > >> to
> > >> a project that is full of smileys and encouragement, or one where
> people
> > >> are negative and abrasive? It really goes a long way to keep the email
> > >> tone
> > >> positive even when you disagree.
> > >>
> > >> Since I've been on this project, I've felt that non-Cordova Apache'ers
> > (we
> > >> are apache'ers too remember) have been constructive and helpful:
> > >> - We want a VM. Mike Billau reached out, and INFRA helped us set one
> up.
> > >> - We want to do BuildBot. Infra helped get us going on their shared
> > >> instance.
> > >> - We want to use git. So do other projects, and it has been a
> > >> collaboration
> > >> between Infra and other projects that made it happen (we complained,
> but
> > >> didn't do the work to make it possible).
> > >> - We want to try reviewboard - Infra got us going in no time (although
> > we
> > >> decided not to stick with it).
> > >>
> > >> Why can we not use Github issues?
> > >> - It's certainly *not* the case that Apache hates github.
> > >> - Has anyone even thought to ask? Maybe it's just a conversation that
> > >> hasn't happened yet.
> > >> - It's important that Apache projects host their own data, but do
> issue
> > >> trackers count as "data"?
> > >> - Sounds like a *great* discussion to have.
> > >> - dev@community.apache.org would be a great place to start, since
> > that's
> > >> meant for cross-project discussion.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 1:53 PM, Joe Bowser <bowserj@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 10:35 AM Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) <
> > >> > Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > Firstly, don't call someone a liar simply because you disagree,
it
> > is
> > >> > > offensive and exactly the kind of behavior I am referring to
(and
> > why
> > >> *I*
> > >> > > dread ever posting to this list, shame that question wasn't in
the
> > >> Stack
> > >> > > Overflow survey).
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > Did you intend this to go to me or the list, because based on the
> tone
> > >> > you're using, I can't be sure.  If you're looking to make a personal
> > >> attack
> > >> > on me publicly, then fine, go ahead.  On this list, these comments
> > only
> > >> > reflect my own personal views.  It's clear that people don't agree
> > with
> > >> me,
> > >> > because we're still here.
> > >> >
> > >> > Joe
> > >> >
> > >> > Ross
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > -----Original Message-----
> > >> > > From: Joe Bowser [mailto:bowserj@gmail.com]
> > >> > > Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2015 9:28 AM
> > >> > > To: dev@cordova.apache.org
> > >> > > Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?
> > >> > >
> > >> > > On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 9:13 AM Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) <
> > >> > > Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > There are no "powers that be". Bring a member brings no
> additional
> > >> > > > influence. What matters around here is constructive
> contributions
> > >> and
> > >> > > > participation.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > That's a lie that we've seen played out numerous times.  There
are
> > >> > clearly
> > >> > > people who bully people in project to fall into line. We've had
to
> > >> fight
> > >> > > the ASF every single time we wanted to do anything with this
> > project,
> > >> and
> > >> > > I'm expecting us to fight the ASF again until we eventually leave.
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > > To be constructive one needs to understand why things are
the
> way
> > >> they
> > >> > > > are and, if they don't fit, one needs to work with people
to
> > propose
> > >> > > > changes that work.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > Or we could just leave the ASF and find a different foundation
> whose
> > >> > rules
> > >> > > aren't as rigid.  That could work too.
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > > Historically this project has had real difficulty doing
just
> that.
> > >> > > > Instead it has focused on negativity and mud slinging (there
are
> > >> some
> > >> > > > individuals who certainly do not fit into this category,
but
> their
> > >> > > > voices are usually drowned out.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > I'm very proud of my record of fighting the ASF.  I regret that
we
> > >> > donated
> > >> > > the PhoneGap code to Cordova, since "The Apache Way" has been
> > >> complained
> > >> > > about so many times by our community members who have followed
us
> > >> since
> > >> > we
> > >> > > started this thing.  However, we're stuck here now, and the people
> > who
> > >> > feel
> > >> > > like working with the ASF are doing so.  You're never going to
> > >> convince
> > >> > > everyone our community that the ASF is a good thing, especially
> > since
> > >> > your
> > >> > > organization has been passively aggressively attacking various
> parts
> > >> of
> > >> > the
> > >> > > JS community for years.  Honestly, I think it's a miracle that
we
> > >> haven't
> > >> > > forked yet.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Joe
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Ross
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > Sent from my Windows Phone
> > >> > > > ________________________________
> > >> > > > From: Carlos Santana<mailto:csantana23@gmail.com>
> > >> > > > Sent: ‎4/‎9/‎2015 9:00 AM
> > >> > > > To: dev@cordova.apache.org<mailto:dev@cordova.apache.org>
> > >> > > > Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers
> happy?
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > Joe,
> > >> > > >   Well I want to try again and see if we can get what we
want,
> > while
> > >> > > > at the same time without being punched in the face :-)
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > Marcel,
> > >> > > >    I know you got appointed in Apache Foundation recently
can
> you
> > >> talk
> > >> > > > to Apache/Infra guys and try with the fury of a million
cordova
> > >> > > > developers to see if what is the possibility to use github
with
> > the
> > >> > > > understanding that there is backup, syncing, and archiving
in
> > place
> > >> > like
> > >> > > I layout in my email?
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 11:37 AM, Joe Bowser <bowserj@gmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > > On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 6:55 AM Carlos Santana <
> > >> csantana23@gmail.com>
> > >> > > > > wrote:
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > One small thing would be to go FULL usage of Github.
> > >> > > > > > We already have folks go there to submit PR anyway.
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > 1. Use Github Issues
> > >> > > > > > Have folks use Github issues as the easiest and
preferred
> way
> > >> > > > > > Backup/Archive  data on Apache using github web
hooks to
> > create
> > >> > > > > > corresponding jira items, and sync comments. we
already
> doing
> > >> this
> > >> > > > > > with mentions of jira CB-xxxx.
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > I don't know if this is allowed.  The powers that be
at Apache
> > >> hate
> > >> > > > GitHub
> > >> > > > > with the fury of a thousand suns.  We already have
enough
> > problems
> > >> > > > > just getting our code to be reflected on GitHub.  I
would love
> > to
> > >> > > > > dump JIRA
> > >> > > > and
> > >> > > > > go back to GitHub issues, and I feel that the move
to the
> Apache
> > >> > > > > infrastructure seriously hurt the project and made
it less
> > >> > > > > accessible to our users and anyone who isn't an Apache
> > neckbeard.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > Also what about if cordova decides to move out
from Apache
> > >> > > > > > Foundation,
> > >> > > > to
> > >> > > > > > another open source Foundation? That should not
affect the
> > >> > > > > > community
> > >> > > > they
> > >> > > > > > should still continue to interface in Github.
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > Sadly, since we're not allowed to use GitHub this way,
us
> > leaving
> > >> > > > > the ASF would be welcomed by our users because we'd
be allowed
> > to
> > >> > > > > use GitHub for everything again like when Nitobi existed.
 One
> > >> thing
> > >> > > > > that I think we
> > >> > > > don't
> > >> > > > > communicate well enough is how much we hate the ASF
policies
> and
> > >> how
> > >> > > > these
> > >> > > > > stupid policies hurt our users.  If I thought that
the ASF
> cared
> > >> > > > > about
> > >> > > > such
> > >> > > > > a thing, I would suggest that we communicate this more
> clearly.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 4:08 AM, Stef
> > >> > > > > > <stephane.bachelier@gmail.com>
> > >> > > > > wrote:
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > As a survey it's always biased.
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > I've used Cordova since a long time before
the 1.x. The
> > >> problem
> > >> > > > > > > is
> > >> > > > > > clearly
> > >> > > > > > > not about Cordova, but most developers don't
understand
> > this.
> > >> > > > > > > They
> > >> > > > > think
> > >> > > > > > > Cordova is like "build an awesome application
in 21 days".
> > >> > > > > > > Clearly most of these guys don't know Javascript,
the
> mobile
> > >> web
> > >> > > > > > > nor anything relative to the mobile.
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > There are really a lots of shitty mobile
applications and
> > most
> > >> > > > > > > of
> > >> > > > them
> > >> > > > > > are
> > >> > > > > > > native :)
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > --
> > >> > > > > > > Stéphane Bachelier,
> > >> > > > > > > Tél. 06 42 24 48 09
> > >> > > > > > > B8A5 2007 0004 CDE4 5210  2317 B58A 335B
B5A4 BFC2
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > 2015-04-09 9:35 GMT+02:00 José-Luc Voltaire
<
> > >> > > > > > > jose-luc.voltaire@netdevices.fr
> > >> > > > > > > >:
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > Hi,
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > I am a developper and I use Cordova.
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > I just wanted to say that even thought
we don't know all
> > the
> > >> > > > details
> > >> > > > > > > about
> > >> > > > > > > > how it works under the hood, we have,
at least, an idea
> of
> > >> the
> > >> > > > > > > > work
> > >> > > > > > done
> > >> > > > > > > > and appreciate it.
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > I try to understand how the tools I
use work and I don't
> > >> think
> > >> > > > > > > > I am
> > >> > > > > the
> > >> > > > > > > > only one.
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > I'm agree with Tyler and I think mobile
web apps can be
> as
> > >> > > > > > > > good as
> > >> > > > > > native
> > >> > > > > > > > ones, it requires a lot of work, and
that's what I try
> to
> > do
> > >> > > > > > > > for
> > >> > > > the
> > >> > > > > > > apps I
> > >> > > > > > > > work on!
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > Again, Thank you for your work, we appreciate!
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > 2015-04-08 22:12 GMT+02:00 Tyler Freeman
<
> > >> Tyler@drumpants.com
> > >> > >:
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > > I think what colors people's perception
the most is
> the
> > >> > > > > > > > > graphics
> > >> > > > > and
> > >> > > > > > > > > interaction performance of JS vs
Native. Here's a few
> > >> > > > > > > > > possible
> > >> > > > > > reasons:
> > >> > > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > > * They are basing their bias off
Phonegap apps they
> saw
> > 3
> > >> > > > > > > > > years
> > >> > > > > ago.
> > >> > > > > > > Even
> > >> > > > > > > > > though it's improved so much since
then, those first
> > apps
> > >> > > > > > > > > still
> > >> > > > > hang
> > >> > > > > > in
> > >> > > > > > > > > people's minds.
> > >> > > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > > * Developers are not trying hard
enough for that
> smooth,
> > >> > > > > > > > > buttery animations. It is possible
to get 60fps on
> > modern
> > >> > > > > > > > > WebKit views,
> > >> > > > but
> > >> > > > > > > it's
> > >> > > > > > > > > hard and takes a lot of work.
> > >> > > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > > * For instance, I came across an
article once that
> > >> > > > > > > > > recommended
> > >> > > > > using
> > >> > > > > > > CSS
> > >> > > > > > > > > transforms instead of properties
like "left". That
> > changed
> > >> > > > > > > > > my
> > >> > > > whole
> > >> > > > > > way
> > >> > > > > > > > of
> > >> > > > > > > > > thinking, and my app looks and
reacts so much better
> > >> because
> > >> > > > > > > > > of
> > >> > > > > it. I
> > >> > > > > > > > think
> > >> > > > > > > > > it would be good for the Cordova
docs to lay out tips
> > like
> > >> > > > > > > > > that
> > >> > > > for
> > >> > > > > > > > making
> > >> > > > > > > > > top-notch apps.
> > >> > > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > > * Non-native feel and interactions.
Some apps just
> port
> > >> > > > > > > > > their
> > >> > > > > > iOS-style
> > >> > > > > > > > > design straight to Android without
considering that
> > >> Android
> > >> > > > > > > > > users
> > >> > > > > > > expect
> > >> > > > > > > > a
> > >> > > > > > > > > completely different paradigm.
Not sure there's much
> to
> > do
> > >> > > > > > > > > about
> > >> > > > > > this.
> > >> > > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > > Tyler
> > >> > > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > > On April 8, 2015 9:42:00 AM PDT,
Michael Brooks <
> > >> > > > > > > > michael@michaelbrooks.ca>
> > >> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > >> > > > > > > > > >This is a really interesting
survey. My take is that
> > the
> > >> > > > > > > > > >score
> > >> > > > is
> > >> > > > > > low
> > >> > > > > > > > > >because over 50% of the participants
are Windows
> users
> > >> and
> > >> > > > > > > > > >the
> > >> > > > > > default
> > >> > > > > > > > > >Cordova experience on Windows
is extremely
> > >> unconventional -
> > >> > > > > > > > > >Git
> > >> > > > > > Bash,
> > >> > > > > > > > > >Node.js Command Prompt, terminal
command driven
> > >> > > > > > > > > >development, and
> > >> > > > > no
> > >> > > > > > > > > >full
> > >> > > > > > > > > >blown IDE. The Microsoft team
is dramatically
> improving
> > >> > > > > > > > > >this and
> > >> > > > > as
> > >> > > > > > > > > >Visual
> > >> > > > > > > > > >Studio integration becomes
more well known, I hope
> > those
> > >> > > > > > > > > >survey
> > >> > > > > > > results
> > >> > > > > > > > > >improve.
> > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > > >On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 9:08
AM, Toplak Daniel <
> > >> > > > > D.Toplak@cadenas.de>
> > >> > > > > > > > > >wrote:
> > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> Absolutely right :-)
> > >> > > > > > > > > >>
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> Cordova is too easy in
some situations and most of
> > the
> > >> > > > > developers
> > >> > > > > > > > > >using
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> cordova (not the cordova
developers itself) are
> > knowing
> > >> > > > nothing
> > >> > > > > > > about
> > >> > > > > > > > > >the
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> plugin system under the
hood, or anything about the
> > >> > > > > JS->Native->JS
> > >> > > > > > > > > >bridge.
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> They even don't know anything
about the asynchronos
> > >> > > > > communitcation
> > >> > > > > > > > > >with
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> plugins.
> > >> > > > > > > > > >>
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> In most situations this
is absolutely ok, but if
> > >> anything
> > >> > > > > special
> > >> > > > > > is
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> needed or something goes
wrong, then they have a
> > >> problem.
> > >> > > > > > > > > >>
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> The other thing is that
there are some JS
> > >> frameworks/libs
> > >> > > > which
> > >> > > > > > are
> > >> > > > > > > > > >not
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> the best for mobile devices.
No I don't name anyone
> > of
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> that
> > >> > > > :-)
> > >> > > > > > > > > >>
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> My point of view is, that
they don't see the real
> > power
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> of the
> > >> > > > > > > > > >cordova
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> framework and create sloppy/buggy
UI's.
> > >> > > > > > > > > >>
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> Daniel Toplak
> > >> > > > > > > > > >>
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> Von: Joe Bowser [mailto:bowserj@gmail.com]
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 8.
April 2015 17:56
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> An: dev@cordova.apache.org
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> Betreff: Re: Does Cordova
have a problem making
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> developers
> > >> > > > > happy?
> > >> > > > > > > > > >>
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> Cordova is the most hated
form of Mobile
> Development,
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> because
> > >> > > > > > > > > >everyone can
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> create a Cordova app,
and the quality of most
> Cordova
> > >> > > > > applications
> > >> > > > > > > is
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> absolutely terrible. 
If you're inheriting a
> Cordova
> > >> > > > application
> > >> > > > > > > from
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> another company, you're
probably going to end up
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> re-writing it
> > >> > > > > and
> > >> > > > > > > if
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> you're an iOS or Android
shop, re-implementing it
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> natively
> > >> > > > > because
> > >> > > > > > > > > >that's
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> what you're more comfortable
with.
> > >> > > > > > > > > >>
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> And I'm perfectly OK with
that.
> > >> > > > > > > > > >>
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> Wordpress and LAMP stacks
aren't going away any
> time
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> soon, and
> > >> > > > > > both
> > >> > > > > > > > > >those
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> technologies share the
same property that anyone
> can
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> create a
> > >> > > > > > shitty
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> website.  We've been called
the Drupal of
> development
> > >> for
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> a
> > >> > > > > > reason,
> > >> > > > > > > > > >and at
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> the time we were called
that, I took it as an
> insult
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> because I
> > >> > > > > > think
> > >> > > > > > > > > >Drupal
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> is shitty (I once inherited
a bad Drupal
> project).  I
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> don't
> > >> > > > > think
> > >> > > > > > we
> > >> > > > > > > > > >should
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> care what developers say
in a survey, since most
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> developers
> > >> > > > are
> > >> > > > > > > > > >terrible
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> anyway.  We should just
make sure that what we're
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> releasing
> > >> > > > > isn't
> > >> > > > > > > > > >terrible.
> > >> > > > > > > > > >>
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at
8:03 AM Treggiari, Leo
> > >> > > > > > > > > ><leo.treggiari@intel.com>
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> wrote:
> > >> > > > > > > > > >>
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > The data below is
from a StackOverflow Developer
> > >> Survey
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > (
> > >> > http://stackoverflow.com/research/developer-survey-2015
> > >> > > ).
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> >
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > Most Dreaded technologies:
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > Salesforce      
    73.2%
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > Visual Basic    
   72.0%
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > Wordpress       
 68.2%
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > Matlab          
      65.6%
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > Sharepoint      
  62.8%
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > LAMP            
       62.2%
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > Perl            
           59.2%
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > Cordova         
     58.8%
> > >> > > **************
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > Coffeescript    
  54.7%
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > Other           
        57.3%
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > % of devs who are
developing with the language or
> > >> tech
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > but
> > >> > > > > have
> > >> > > > > > > not
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > expressed interest
in continuing to do so.
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> >
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > Any ideas on what
the problem is?  Here are some
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > possible
> > >> > > > > > answers.
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > I'm not suggesting
that any of these are true,
> but
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > rather
> > >> > > > > > looking
> > >> > > > > > > > > >for
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > feedback from those
who have heard developers
> > express
> > >> > > > > > frustration
> > >> > > > > > > > > >with
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> Cordova:
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> >
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> >
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > *        There is
no problem - unclear question
> led
> > >> to
> > >> > the
> > >> > > > > > answer
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> >
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > *        The problem
is really about creating
> > native
> > >> > apps
> > >> > > in
> > >> > > > > > > > > >JavaScript +
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > HTML5
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> >
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > *        Cordova
CLI has a quality problem
> > >> > (learnability |
> > >> > > > > > > > > >usability |
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > reliability)
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> >
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > o   Too hard to set
up development environment
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> >
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > o   The command CLI
is too complicated
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> >
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > o   Not enough learning
material (documentation,
> > >> > articles,
> > >> > > > > > books)
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> >
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > o   Too many bugs
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> >
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > o   Changes too frequently
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> >
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > Leo
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> >
> > >> > > > > > > > > >> >
> > >> > > > > > > > > >>
> > >> > > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > > Tyler Freeman
> > >> > > > > > > > > CTO, DrumPants, Inc.
> > >> > > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > > Sent from mobile
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > --
> > >> > > > > > > > Cordialement,
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > > Voltaire José-luc
> > >> > > > > > > > Directeur Technique
> > >> > > > > > > > Netdevices
> > >> > > > > > > > e-mail : jose-luc.voltaire@netdevices.fr
> > >> > > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > --
> > >> > > > > > Carlos Santana
> > >> > > > > > <csantana23@gmail.com>
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > --
> > >> > > > Carlos Santana
> > >> > > > <csantana23@gmail.com>
> > >> > > >
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Carlos Santana
> <csantana23@gmail.com>
>

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