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From Carlos Santana <csantan...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?
Date Thu, 09 Apr 2015 23:31:03 GMT
Sorry Ross I didn't intended for my email to be taken as a negative tone.

Like Brian said email is the worst medium for certain discussions.

I was trying to turn Joes comments into positive ones by taking a positive
attitude and just try to have a discussion with Apache to see of the
possibility of using Github while at the same time meeting any requirements.
In terms of mentioning Marcel, which now I realize was a dumb thing to do,
since he is not even on this email thread. It was not my intention to get a
influencer of try to get an advantage on the process. It's just that Marcel
is on my team, and has being longer with Cordova so it might have some
background knowledge on previous request to use Github and is more aware of
the Apache rules/processes than me.

I don't have any problems pursuing the four use cases myself to use Github,
but first I wanted buy-in from the Cordova committers to see what they
think if they are good ideas, or not, or just some of them.
So far it looks like Joe and Andrew think that some of the Github usages
might be good ideas but I would like to wait and hear what others have to
say before starting a conversation with Infra or who ever we need to work
with.
I will open a a new thread for this since it looks like this is one have
being poisoned :-(

Joe,
   I respect you man, and I respect freedom of speech, but respecting that
doesn't mean I agree with your hard opinions about ASF.
So far we have had some wins like getting PR on github, commits messages
sync with jira, and posting cordova code on npm. If hypothetically we moved
out of ASF, I think it will be wise to still be under a Foundation, there
are there to protect and have benefits, and will demand technical and legal
process to be in place. it's just part of being a good and healthy open
source project.

So as final thought, I want to be positive to work with ASF, and just
continue to improve the project even if takes a bit of time and talking
with ASF to do so.


On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 4:18 PM, Brian LeRoux <b@brian.io> wrote:

> I should note not all the membership is the same. We do have many
> supporters at the ASF and from a high level the organization is incredible
> and important. I don't regret our choice to move here and do think things
> are changing for the better. (Albeit too slowly for my liking.) Consensus
> is hard. The ASF predates software as a service for developer tools and
> most of the policy was (until recently) ambiguous if not outright
> undocumented. Change is happening so I'm opting to be optimistic. Most ppl
> that still write code recognize the importance of continuous delivery and
> release automation. Some them realize that those things are not existential
> threats even. We'll get there.
>
> On Thu, Apr 9, 2015, 12:56 PM Brian LeRoux <b@brian.io> wrote:
>
> > Oh we tried to help. And yes we asked. We were very rudely treated. On
> and
> > off list. (Or, I was anyhow.)
> >
> > I'm all for being positive, and I generally am, but I am also not
> > interested in perpetuating a revisionist narrative about how apache has
> > been great to work with. I have always maintained a professional dialogue
> > even when receiving personal attacks and threats. The records show that
> and
> > I can sleep at night.
> >
> > Can that change? I continue to hope so. Not even a month ago I was
> > harassed by a member. I'll be at apachecon to discuss f2f since email had
> > proven to be a terrible medium so far.
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 9, 2015, 12:47 PM Andrew Grieve <agrieve@chromium.org>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Apache provides a lot of benefit. I don't want elaborate right now, but
> I
> >> will promise to post back with some formulated thoughts a bit later
> (some
> >> of this I'm prepping for my ApacheCon talk, so I need to do it anyways).
> >>
> >> Joe - Please please *please* do not write emails that are not
> >> constructive.
> >> If you want to be negative, don't hit the send button. If not for the
> sake
> >> of others, for the sake of yourself - saying negative things about
> others
> >> almost always ends up making you look worse than those you are being
> >> negative towards.
> >>
> >> Another angle:
> >> Even if you are convinced that you're right, and even though your views
> >> are
> >> your own (although statements like "Or we could just leave the ASF" make
> >> it
> >> sound like you are representing more than that), your tone often just
> >> makes
> >> people want to run away rather than engage. Would you want to contribute
> >> to
> >> a project that is full of smileys and encouragement, or one where people
> >> are negative and abrasive? It really goes a long way to keep the email
> >> tone
> >> positive even when you disagree.
> >>
> >> Since I've been on this project, I've felt that non-Cordova Apache'ers
> (we
> >> are apache'ers too remember) have been constructive and helpful:
> >> - We want a VM. Mike Billau reached out, and INFRA helped us set one up.
> >> - We want to do BuildBot. Infra helped get us going on their shared
> >> instance.
> >> - We want to use git. So do other projects, and it has been a
> >> collaboration
> >> between Infra and other projects that made it happen (we complained, but
> >> didn't do the work to make it possible).
> >> - We want to try reviewboard - Infra got us going in no time (although
> we
> >> decided not to stick with it).
> >>
> >> Why can we not use Github issues?
> >> - It's certainly *not* the case that Apache hates github.
> >> - Has anyone even thought to ask? Maybe it's just a conversation that
> >> hasn't happened yet.
> >> - It's important that Apache projects host their own data, but do issue
> >> trackers count as "data"?
> >> - Sounds like a *great* discussion to have.
> >> - dev@community.apache.org would be a great place to start, since
> that's
> >> meant for cross-project discussion.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 1:53 PM, Joe Bowser <bowserj@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 10:35 AM Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) <
> >> > Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Firstly, don't call someone a liar simply because you disagree, it
> is
> >> > > offensive and exactly the kind of behavior I am referring to (and
> why
> >> *I*
> >> > > dread ever posting to this list, shame that question wasn't in the
> >> Stack
> >> > > Overflow survey).
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > Did you intend this to go to me or the list, because based on the tone
> >> > you're using, I can't be sure.  If you're looking to make a personal
> >> attack
> >> > on me publicly, then fine, go ahead.  On this list, these comments
> only
> >> > reflect my own personal views.  It's clear that people don't agree
> with
> >> me,
> >> > because we're still here.
> >> >
> >> > Joe
> >> >
> >> > Ross
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > -----Original Message-----
> >> > > From: Joe Bowser [mailto:bowserj@gmail.com]
> >> > > Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2015 9:28 AM
> >> > > To: dev@cordova.apache.org
> >> > > Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?
> >> > >
> >> > > On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 9:13 AM Ross Gardler (MS OPEN TECH) <
> >> > > Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > There are no "powers that be". Bring a member brings no additional
> >> > > > influence. What matters around here is constructive contributions
> >> and
> >> > > > participation.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > That's a lie that we've seen played out numerous times.  There are
> >> > clearly
> >> > > people who bully people in project to fall into line. We've had to
> >> fight
> >> > > the ASF every single time we wanted to do anything with this
> project,
> >> and
> >> > > I'm expecting us to fight the ASF again until we eventually leave.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > > To be constructive one needs to understand why things are the
way
> >> they
> >> > > > are and, if they don't fit, one needs to work with people to
> propose
> >> > > > changes that work.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > Or we could just leave the ASF and find a different foundation whose
> >> > rules
> >> > > aren't as rigid.  That could work too.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > > Historically this project has had real difficulty doing just
that.
> >> > > > Instead it has focused on negativity and mud slinging (there
are
> >> some
> >> > > > individuals who certainly do not fit into this category, but
their
> >> > > > voices are usually drowned out.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > I'm very proud of my record of fighting the ASF.  I regret that we
> >> > donated
> >> > > the PhoneGap code to Cordova, since "The Apache Way" has been
> >> complained
> >> > > about so many times by our community members who have followed us
> >> since
> >> > we
> >> > > started this thing.  However, we're stuck here now, and the people
> who
> >> > feel
> >> > > like working with the ASF are doing so.  You're never going to
> >> convince
> >> > > everyone our community that the ASF is a good thing, especially
> since
> >> > your
> >> > > organization has been passively aggressively attacking various parts
> >> of
> >> > the
> >> > > JS community for years.  Honestly, I think it's a miracle that we
> >> haven't
> >> > > forked yet.
> >> > >
> >> > > Joe
> >> > >
> >> > > Ross
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Sent from my Windows Phone
> >> > > > ________________________________
> >> > > > From: Carlos Santana<mailto:csantana23@gmail.com>
> >> > > > Sent: ‎4/‎9/‎2015 9:00 AM
> >> > > > To: dev@cordova.apache.org<mailto:dev@cordova.apache.org>
> >> > > > Subject: Re: Does Cordova have a problem making developers happy?
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Joe,
> >> > > >   Well I want to try again and see if we can get what we want,
> while
> >> > > > at the same time without being punched in the face :-)
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Marcel,
> >> > > >    I know you got appointed in Apache Foundation recently can
you
> >> talk
> >> > > > to Apache/Infra guys and try with the fury of a million cordova
> >> > > > developers to see if what is the possibility to use github with
> the
> >> > > > understanding that there is backup, syncing, and archiving in
> place
> >> > like
> >> > > I layout in my email?
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 11:37 AM, Joe Bowser <bowserj@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > > On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 6:55 AM Carlos Santana <
> >> csantana23@gmail.com>
> >> > > > > wrote:
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > One small thing would be to go FULL usage of Github.
> >> > > > > > We already have folks go there to submit PR anyway.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > 1. Use Github Issues
> >> > > > > > Have folks use Github issues as the easiest and preferred
way
> >> > > > > > Backup/Archive  data on Apache using github web hooks
to
> create
> >> > > > > > corresponding jira items, and sync comments. we already
doing
> >> this
> >> > > > > > with mentions of jira CB-xxxx.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > I don't know if this is allowed.  The powers that be at
Apache
> >> hate
> >> > > > GitHub
> >> > > > > with the fury of a thousand suns.  We already have enough
> problems
> >> > > > > just getting our code to be reflected on GitHub.  I would
love
> to
> >> > > > > dump JIRA
> >> > > > and
> >> > > > > go back to GitHub issues, and I feel that the move to the
Apache
> >> > > > > infrastructure seriously hurt the project and made it less
> >> > > > > accessible to our users and anyone who isn't an Apache
> neckbeard.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Also what about if cordova decides to move out from
Apache
> >> > > > > > Foundation,
> >> > > > to
> >> > > > > > another open source Foundation? That should not affect
the
> >> > > > > > community
> >> > > > they
> >> > > > > > should still continue to interface in Github.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > Sadly, since we're not allowed to use GitHub this way, us
> leaving
> >> > > > > the ASF would be welcomed by our users because we'd be allowed
> to
> >> > > > > use GitHub for everything again like when Nitobi existed.
 One
> >> thing
> >> > > > > that I think we
> >> > > > don't
> >> > > > > communicate well enough is how much we hate the ASF policies
and
> >> how
> >> > > > these
> >> > > > > stupid policies hurt our users.  If I thought that the ASF
cared
> >> > > > > about
> >> > > > such
> >> > > > > a thing, I would suggest that we communicate this more clearly.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 4:08 AM, Stef
> >> > > > > > <stephane.bachelier@gmail.com>
> >> > > > > wrote:
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > As a survey it's always biased.
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > I've used Cordova since a long time before the
1.x. The
> >> problem
> >> > > > > > > is
> >> > > > > > clearly
> >> > > > > > > not about Cordova, but most developers don't understand
> this.
> >> > > > > > > They
> >> > > > > think
> >> > > > > > > Cordova is like "build an awesome application
in 21 days".
> >> > > > > > > Clearly most of these guys don't know Javascript,
the mobile
> >> web
> >> > > > > > > nor anything relative to the mobile.
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > There are really a lots of shitty mobile applications
and
> most
> >> > > > > > > of
> >> > > > them
> >> > > > > > are
> >> > > > > > > native :)
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > --
> >> > > > > > > Stéphane Bachelier,
> >> > > > > > > Tél. 06 42 24 48 09
> >> > > > > > > B8A5 2007 0004 CDE4 5210  2317 B58A 335B B5A4
BFC2
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > 2015-04-09 9:35 GMT+02:00 José-Luc Voltaire <
> >> > > > > > > jose-luc.voltaire@netdevices.fr
> >> > > > > > > >:
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > Hi,
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > I am a developper and I use Cordova.
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > I just wanted to say that even thought we
don't know all
> the
> >> > > > details
> >> > > > > > > about
> >> > > > > > > > how it works under the hood, we have, at
least, an idea of
> >> the
> >> > > > > > > > work
> >> > > > > > done
> >> > > > > > > > and appreciate it.
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > I try to understand how the tools I use work
and I don't
> >> think
> >> > > > > > > > I am
> >> > > > > the
> >> > > > > > > > only one.
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > I'm agree with Tyler and I think mobile web
apps can be as
> >> > > > > > > > good as
> >> > > > > > native
> >> > > > > > > > ones, it requires a lot of work, and that's
what I try to
> do
> >> > > > > > > > for
> >> > > > the
> >> > > > > > > apps I
> >> > > > > > > > work on!
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > Again, Thank you for your work, we appreciate!
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > 2015-04-08 22:12 GMT+02:00 Tyler Freeman
<
> >> Tyler@drumpants.com
> >> > >:
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > I think what colors people's perception
the most is the
> >> > > > > > > > > graphics
> >> > > > > and
> >> > > > > > > > > interaction performance of JS vs Native.
Here's a few
> >> > > > > > > > > possible
> >> > > > > > reasons:
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > * They are basing their bias off Phonegap
apps they saw
> 3
> >> > > > > > > > > years
> >> > > > > ago.
> >> > > > > > > Even
> >> > > > > > > > > though it's improved so much since then,
those first
> apps
> >> > > > > > > > > still
> >> > > > > hang
> >> > > > > > in
> >> > > > > > > > > people's minds.
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > * Developers are not trying hard enough
for that smooth,
> >> > > > > > > > > buttery animations. It is possible to
get 60fps on
> modern
> >> > > > > > > > > WebKit views,
> >> > > > but
> >> > > > > > > it's
> >> > > > > > > > > hard and takes a lot of work.
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > * For instance, I came across an article
once that
> >> > > > > > > > > recommended
> >> > > > > using
> >> > > > > > > CSS
> >> > > > > > > > > transforms instead of properties like
"left". That
> changed
> >> > > > > > > > > my
> >> > > > whole
> >> > > > > > way
> >> > > > > > > > of
> >> > > > > > > > > thinking, and my app looks and reacts
so much better
> >> because
> >> > > > > > > > > of
> >> > > > > it. I
> >> > > > > > > > think
> >> > > > > > > > > it would be good for the Cordova docs
to lay out tips
> like
> >> > > > > > > > > that
> >> > > > for
> >> > > > > > > > making
> >> > > > > > > > > top-notch apps.
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > * Non-native feel and interactions.
Some apps just port
> >> > > > > > > > > their
> >> > > > > > iOS-style
> >> > > > > > > > > design straight to Android without considering
that
> >> Android
> >> > > > > > > > > users
> >> > > > > > > expect
> >> > > > > > > > a
> >> > > > > > > > > completely different paradigm. Not sure
there's much to
> do
> >> > > > > > > > > about
> >> > > > > > this.
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > Tyler
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > On April 8, 2015 9:42:00 AM PDT, Michael
Brooks <
> >> > > > > > > > michael@michaelbrooks.ca>
> >> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > >This is a really interesting survey.
My take is that
> the
> >> > > > > > > > > >score
> >> > > > is
> >> > > > > > low
> >> > > > > > > > > >because over 50% of the participants
are Windows users
> >> and
> >> > > > > > > > > >the
> >> > > > > > default
> >> > > > > > > > > >Cordova experience on Windows is
extremely
> >> unconventional -
> >> > > > > > > > > >Git
> >> > > > > > Bash,
> >> > > > > > > > > >Node.js Command Prompt, terminal
command driven
> >> > > > > > > > > >development, and
> >> > > > > no
> >> > > > > > > > > >full
> >> > > > > > > > > >blown IDE. The Microsoft team is
dramatically improving
> >> > > > > > > > > >this and
> >> > > > > as
> >> > > > > > > > > >Visual
> >> > > > > > > > > >Studio integration becomes more
well known, I hope
> those
> >> > > > > > > > > >survey
> >> > > > > > > results
> >> > > > > > > > > >improve.
> >> > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 9:08 AM,
Toplak Daniel <
> >> > > > > D.Toplak@cadenas.de>
> >> > > > > > > > > >wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> Absolutely right :-)
> >> > > > > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> Cordova is too easy in some
situations and most of
> the
> >> > > > > developers
> >> > > > > > > > > >using
> >> > > > > > > > > >> cordova (not the cordova developers
itself) are
> knowing
> >> > > > nothing
> >> > > > > > > about
> >> > > > > > > > > >the
> >> > > > > > > > > >> plugin system under the hood,
or anything about the
> >> > > > > JS->Native->JS
> >> > > > > > > > > >bridge.
> >> > > > > > > > > >> They even don't know anything
about the asynchronos
> >> > > > > communitcation
> >> > > > > > > > > >with
> >> > > > > > > > > >> plugins.
> >> > > > > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> In most situations this is
absolutely ok, but if
> >> anything
> >> > > > > special
> >> > > > > > is
> >> > > > > > > > > >> needed or something goes wrong,
then they have a
> >> problem.
> >> > > > > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> The other thing is that there
are some JS
> >> frameworks/libs
> >> > > > which
> >> > > > > > are
> >> > > > > > > > > >not
> >> > > > > > > > > >> the best for mobile devices.
No I don't name anyone
> of
> >> > > > > > > > > >> that
> >> > > > :-)
> >> > > > > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> My point of view is, that they
don't see the real
> power
> >> > > > > > > > > >> of the
> >> > > > > > > > > >cordova
> >> > > > > > > > > >> framework and create sloppy/buggy
UI's.
> >> > > > > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> Daniel Toplak
> >> > > > > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> >> > > > > > > > > >> Von: Joe Bowser [mailto:bowserj@gmail.com]
> >> > > > > > > > > >> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 8. April
2015 17:56
> >> > > > > > > > > >> An: dev@cordova.apache.org
> >> > > > > > > > > >> Betreff: Re: Does Cordova have
a problem making
> >> > > > > > > > > >> developers
> >> > > > > happy?
> >> > > > > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> Cordova is the most hated form
of Mobile Development,
> >> > > > > > > > > >> because
> >> > > > > > > > > >everyone can
> >> > > > > > > > > >> create a Cordova app, and the
quality of most Cordova
> >> > > > > applications
> >> > > > > > > is
> >> > > > > > > > > >> absolutely terrible.  If you're
inheriting a Cordova
> >> > > > application
> >> > > > > > > from
> >> > > > > > > > > >> another company, you're probably
going to end up
> >> > > > > > > > > >> re-writing it
> >> > > > > and
> >> > > > > > > if
> >> > > > > > > > > >> you're an iOS or Android shop,
re-implementing it
> >> > > > > > > > > >> natively
> >> > > > > because
> >> > > > > > > > > >that's
> >> > > > > > > > > >> what you're more comfortable
with.
> >> > > > > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> And I'm perfectly OK with that.
> >> > > > > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> Wordpress and LAMP stacks aren't
going away any time
> >> > > > > > > > > >> soon, and
> >> > > > > > both
> >> > > > > > > > > >those
> >> > > > > > > > > >> technologies share the same
property that anyone can
> >> > > > > > > > > >> create a
> >> > > > > > shitty
> >> > > > > > > > > >> website.  We've been called
the Drupal of development
> >> for
> >> > > > > > > > > >> a
> >> > > > > > reason,
> >> > > > > > > > > >and at
> >> > > > > > > > > >> the time we were called that,
I took it as an insult
> >> > > > > > > > > >> because I
> >> > > > > > think
> >> > > > > > > > > >Drupal
> >> > > > > > > > > >> is shitty (I once inherited
a bad Drupal project).  I
> >> > > > > > > > > >> don't
> >> > > > > think
> >> > > > > > we
> >> > > > > > > > > >should
> >> > > > > > > > > >> care what developers say in
a survey, since most
> >> > > > > > > > > >> developers
> >> > > > are
> >> > > > > > > > > >terrible
> >> > > > > > > > > >> anyway.  We should just make
sure that what we're
> >> > > > > > > > > >> releasing
> >> > > > > isn't
> >> > > > > > > > > >terrible.
> >> > > > > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 8:03
AM Treggiari, Leo
> >> > > > > > > > > ><leo.treggiari@intel.com>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > The data below is from
a StackOverflow Developer
> >> Survey
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > (
> >> > http://stackoverflow.com/research/developer-survey-2015
> >> > > ).
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Most Dreaded technologies:
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Salesforce           73.2%
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Visual Basic        72.0%
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Wordpress         68.2%
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Matlab               
 65.6%
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Sharepoint         62.8%
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > LAMP                 
  62.2%
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Perl                 
      59.2%
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Cordova              
58.8%
> >> > > **************
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Coffeescript       54.7%
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Other                
   57.3%
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > % of devs who are developing
with the language or
> >> tech
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > but
> >> > > > > have
> >> > > > > > > not
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > expressed interest in
continuing to do so.
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Any ideas on what the
problem is?  Here are some
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > possible
> >> > > > > > answers.
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > I'm not suggesting that
any of these are true, but
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > rather
> >> > > > > > looking
> >> > > > > > > > > >for
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > feedback from those who
have heard developers
> express
> >> > > > > > frustration
> >> > > > > > > > > >with
> >> > > > > > > > > >> Cordova:
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > *        There is no problem
- unclear question led
> >> to
> >> > the
> >> > > > > > answer
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > *        The problem is
really about creating
> native
> >> > apps
> >> > > in
> >> > > > > > > > > >JavaScript +
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > HTML5
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > *        Cordova CLI has
a quality problem
> >> > (learnability |
> >> > > > > > > > > >usability |
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > reliability)
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > o   Too hard to set up
development environment
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > o   The command CLI is
too complicated
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > o   Not enough learning
material (documentation,
> >> > articles,
> >> > > > > > books)
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > o   Too many bugs
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > o   Changes too frequently
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Leo
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >
> >> > > > > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > Tyler Freeman
> >> > > > > > > > > CTO, DrumPants, Inc.
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > Sent from mobile
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > --
> >> > > > > > > > Cordialement,
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > Voltaire José-luc
> >> > > > > > > > Directeur Technique
> >> > > > > > > > Netdevices
> >> > > > > > > > e-mail : jose-luc.voltaire@netdevices.fr
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > --
> >> > > > > > Carlos Santana
> >> > > > > > <csantana23@gmail.com>
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > --
> >> > > > Carlos Santana
> >> > > > <csantana23@gmail.com>
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> >
>



-- 
Carlos Santana
<csantana23@gmail.com>

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