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From Victor Sosa <sosah.vic...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Crowdin and translation process
Date Wed, 04 Feb 2015 04:11:26 GMT
Hello community.

So that everybody is aware about the proceedings on this topic.

Andrey and I just had a quick call about this topic and here the agreement

We want to still continue using Crowdin as our tool for automatic
translation, but we do acknowledge the problems depicted on this thread
(autolinking and formatting). In order to fix these problems, Andrey worked
on a couple of validation scripts that we can integrate in the translation
process, but for this to happen we need to do the following (Andrey, please
keep me honest):

1. I'll reach out the Crowdin folks to see whether they have any API to put
translated documents back in CrowdIn. This way we can run the validation
scripts locally and then put the fixed docs back and run the usual Crowdin
build. If no API is available then try to find a workaround to this problem
(as of now, we couldn't find a way to do it).

2. As a low priority task for now, I'll refactor the current translation
script (shell script) to something more cross-platform (ideas about the
best solution/technology are welcome)

3. Andrey will continue his work making sure the output of the validation
scripts is as expected.

Hope I didn't miss anything from our chat.
 On Feb 3, 2015 8:32 PM, "Victor Sosa" <sosah.victor@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Andrey
>
> Yes, in about an hour as agreed
> On Feb 3, 2015 8:22 PM, "Andrey Kurdumov" <kant2002@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> will you able chat today 9:30 PM CST as we plan earlier?
>>
>> 2015-01-30 8:47 GMT+06:00 Victor Sosa <sosah.victor@gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Cool! So I'll book it on my calendar, Tuesday 9:30pm. That's Your
>>> Wednesday 9:30am. Talk to you then.
>>>
>>> Have a great weekend!
>>> On Jan 29, 2015 8:39 PM, "Andrey Kurdumov" <kant2002@googlemail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm fine for that time.
>>>>
>>>> 2015-01-30 8:37 GMT+06:00 Victor Sosa <sosah.victor@gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> So let's schedule a hangout next Wednesday in the morning, which is my
>>>>> Tuesday night. If I recall correctly we are 12 hours apart from each
other
>>>>> (I'm in GMT -6). How about 9:30 AM for you?
>>>>> On Jan 29, 2015 7:52 PM, "Andrey Kurdumov" <kant2002@googlemail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> If this is working for you, we could chat.
>>>>>> Morning is start for me, hopefully it is not too late for you. I
>>>>>> could chat in next 4 hours or more without problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2015-01-30 6:27 GMT+06:00 Victor Sosa <sosah.victor@gmail.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Andrey. Thanks for the reminder.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In the process in step 4 you are correct. This "manual" step
is
>>>>>>> actually going to CrowdIn and launch the build from there.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I agree that after 5, we need to establish some kind of mechanism
to
>>>>>>> validate the two scenarios you state here (formatting  errors
and
>>>>>>> autolinking). I presume this translationreport script is the
one you
>>>>>>> created and will be useful to validate the autolinking problems.
And as you
>>>>>>> state, it is quite difficult to maintain each language and therefore
we
>>>>>>> have to live with the problems we have for the time being :S
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let me tell you this, why don't you and schedule a hangout to
speed
>>>>>>> up this conversation and convey an agreement? I'm fine if you
want to book
>>>>>>> the hangout in your morning, which is my night ;-), just let
me know your
>>>>>>> availability (we can have a quick chat on gmail privately to
not spam the
>>>>>>> list)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2015-01-29 9:08 GMT-06:00 Andrey Kurdumov <kant2002@googlemail.com>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi, want to bump this thread. Do you have any thoughts how I
could
>>>>>>>> fix current documentation issues without interfering with
you?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2015-01-23 13:46 GMT+06:00 Andrey Kurdumov <kant2002@googlemail.com
>>>>>>>> >:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks for explanation. The process is more like i think.
>>>>>>>>> One thing about which I'm not sure is #4. I assume that
this is
>>>>>>>>> some step in CrowdIn which generated ZIP file from the
latest translations.
>>>>>>>>> Correct me if I wrong.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> a) My feeling how I would like to work:
>>>>>>>>> 1. The script downloads the latest updates to your local
Got repo.
>>>>>>>>> 2. Adds the docs in English to CrowdIn.
>>>>>>>>> 3. Manually start the translation via a machine in CrowdIn
>>>>>>>>> 4. Once translated, manually run a build of the docs.
>>>>>>>>> 5. Using the script, download the changes in documentation
to your
>>>>>>>>> local repo.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> X. Run validation scripts.
>>>>>>>>> X.a. In case of any translation error (autolinking for
example) go
>>>>>>>>> to CrowdIn and start from step #3.
>>>>>>>>> X.b In case of some minor formatting errors, correct
them manually
>>>>>>>>> and continue to step #6.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 6. Commit changes to Git.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I just want to add validation step which will not allow
to commit
>>>>>>>>> specifically for Russian language, since this is only
language which I
>>>>>>>>> could support.
>>>>>>>>> Other languages I don't plan to support, and from my
perspective
>>>>>>>>> they are broken.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Here the small Node.js utility which could help you test
broken
>>>>>>>>> auto-linking on any language you care.
>>>>>>>>> Run
>>>>>>>>>  ./bin/translationreport ru edge -v
>>>>>>>>> from the root folder of [cordova-docs] repository.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I will never go to step #6 until I fix every errors which
I found
>>>>>>>>> on step X. This is how I feel it should be. But I open
for alternatives
>>>>>>>>> which allows me improve quality of Russian translation,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regarding make validation step possible in CrowdIn. So
far, I
>>>>>>>>> don't see any method which allows verify of translation
without downloading
>>>>>>>>> it first from CrowdIn (see https://crowdin.com/page/api).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I really try make good translation using just CrowdIn,
but don't
>>>>>>>>> see any opportunity to fix broken MD files inside CrowdIn.
>>>>>>>>> If you have any ideas how I could fix errors in the links
I show
>>>>>>>>> you using just CrowdIn, I would be all-in for that.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>>> Andrey
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2015-01-22 8:56 GMT+06:00 Victor Sosa <sosah.victor@gmail.com>:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Andrey, sorry my late replay. Here my 2 cents.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This is what the current translation process does:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 1. The script downloads the latest updates to your
local Got repo.
>>>>>>>>>> 2. Adds the docs in English to CrowdIn.
>>>>>>>>>> 3. Manually start the translation via a machine in
CrowdIn
>>>>>>>>>> 4. Once translated, manually run a build of the docs.
>>>>>>>>>> 5. Using the script, download the changes in documentation
to
>>>>>>>>>> your local repo.
>>>>>>>>>> 6. Commit changes to Git.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If a translator modifies a doc at some point in CrowdIn,
I'll
>>>>>>>>>> take the changes in the next build.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As Lisa stated, any changes made in the translated
docs outside
>>>>>>>>>> of CrowdIn will end up ignored in the next build.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If I understood correctly, you propose to validate
the generated
>>>>>>>>>> docs using the tool you created. I wonder if we can
add the validation
>>>>>>>>>> process to modify the docs in CrowdIn instead of
directly doing it in Git.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Correct me if wrong, but I think this is the way
to go in order
>>>>>>>>>> not just to keep the current process but to enhance
it. Let me know what
>>>>>>>>>> you think.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> P.S. I'm in Central Timezone, which means I'm 12
hours away from
>>>>>>>>>> you. Communication is an exciting topic here :-D
>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 20, 2015 9:24 PM, "Andrey Kurdumov" <
>>>>>>>>>> kant2002@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> My main concern is that current translation not
good.
>>>>>>>>>>> Proof: http://cordova.apache.org/docs/es/edge/index.html
or
>>>>>>>>>>> http://cordova.apache.org/docs/ru/edge/index.html
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> These links contain two major issues with translated
docs.
>>>>>>>>>>> a) License headers
>>>>>>>>>>> b) Missing links which could lead to missing
parts of docs.
>>>>>>>>>>> other issues are also present which also introduced
by our tools.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>> First kind of errors was introduced as of Cordova
3.4 or like
>>>>>>>>>>> that.
>>>>>>>>>>> There no way fix that using CrowdIn, so I fix
that in the Git
>>>>>>>>>>> repo byt sending pull request
>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/apache/cordova-docs/pull/250
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Example of changes
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/apache/cordova-docs/commit/691f0f016ef4932e9cd224f49bb9641161b726e1
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>> Second kind of errors (missing links) could be
verified by
>>>>>>>>>>> running new tool
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  ./bin/translationreport ru edge -v
>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>  ./bin/translationreport ru edge
>>>>>>>>>>> for more details.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Really I don't trust output of CrowdIn due to
way we generate
>>>>>>>>>>> documentation. It is very easy translate sentence
and broke our
>>>>>>>>>>> autolinking in the documentation. Current process
is not enough
>>>>>>>>>>> for me, since before commit changes to Git for
Russian translation
>>>>>>>>>>> I want to manually generate Russian documentation
and verify
>>>>>>>>>>> quality of produced output using automated-tools
and by manual
>>>>>>>>>>> spot-checking.
>>>>>>>>>>> If any of tools report about problem with translation
I would
>>>>>>>>>>> not commit any changes until I resolve issue.
If that mean that
>>>>>>>>>>> I have to manually insert blank lines after pulling
changes from
>>>>>>>>>>> CrowdIn, I will do that.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I have doubts that this is practical follow this
approach for
>>>>>>>>>>> other languages, that's why separation. If you
are ready to
>>>>>>>>>>> go with that approach for all other languages,
I would be more
>>>>>>>>>>> then happy not to separate Russian. I want find
solution/process where all
>>>>>>>>>>> we would work with same set of tools, plus I
will use additional
>>>>>>>>>>> tools to raise quality bar for Russian.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Want to notice that I don't want to dump CrowdIn
from the
>>>>>>>>>>> process, it is very good to for translation,
>>>>>>>>>>> but not for the verification of the translated
results. Reason
>>>>>>>>>>> that I made pull request on GitHub directly,
>>>>>>>>>>> it is because CrowdIn does not allow do what
I need.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hopefully this is clears picture from my side.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> BTW: another problem is that I GMT +6 which is
11 hours
>>>>>>>>>>> different from East side of  US and 14 from West
side of US.
>>>>>>>>>>> Add some communication problems.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 2015-01-20 22:43 GMT+06:00 Lisa Seacat DeLuca
<
>>>>>>>>>>> ldeluca@us.ibm.com>:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Andrey~
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm a little confused by your request.  Are
you saying that you
>>>>>>>>>>>> make changes to the translation outside of
the Crowdin tool?  If that's the
>>>>>>>>>>>> case, yes, all of your changes are going
to be lost every time.  You'll
>>>>>>>>>>>> need to make the changes within Crowdin.
 When the script is ran to make
>>>>>>>>>>>> sure the latest documentation is pushed to
the Crowdin tool it doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>>> override any translations that have already
been done.  It just adds
>>>>>>>>>>>> updates to the documentation (new sentences,
new code, etc) or changes that
>>>>>>>>>>>> were made.  So unless sections of the english
version of the documentation
>>>>>>>>>>>> has been changes your Russian updates shouldn't
be affected.  I see no
>>>>>>>>>>>> reason why you couldn't own the Russian part
of the translation process.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Whenever Victor goes to pull down the translations
if the Russian
>>>>>>>>>>>> translations aren't at 100% he can talk to
you.  Does that sound
>>>>>>>>>>>> reasonable?  Did I understand your concern
correctly?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Lisa
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: Inactive hide details for Andrey
Kurdumov ---01/20/2015
>>>>>>>>>>>> 01:22:53 AM---Hi, I start working on the
improving Cordova documentatio]Andrey
>>>>>>>>>>>> Kurdumov ---01/20/2015 01:22:53 AM---Hi,
I start working on the improving
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cordova documentation for Russian language.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Andrey Kurdumov <kant2002@googlemail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: dev@cordova.apache.org, Victor Adrian
Sosa Herrera <
>>>>>>>>>>>> sosah.victor@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: 01/20/2015 01:22 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Crowdin and translation process
>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I start working on the improving Cordova
documentation for
>>>>>>>>>>>> Russian language.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Earlier I put fix for the YAML license headers
directly to
>>>>>>>>>>>> Github for all
>>>>>>>>>>>> translations.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Right now after I put documentation translation
checker tool, I
>>>>>>>>>>>> see issues
>>>>>>>>>>>> which I would like to improve Russian translation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I download latest translation from Crowdin
and compare that
>>>>>>>>>>>> field with docs
>>>>>>>>>>>> in the source control. What I found is that
YAML fixes is not
>>>>>>>>>>>> in CrowdIn.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. This raises question how we could could
work on translation
>>>>>>>>>>>> with Victor
>>>>>>>>>>>> together effectively, not impacting each
other?
>>>>>>>>>>>> When documentation files is uploaded to the
Crowdin?
>>>>>>>>>>>> When translation is collected from Crowdin?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Are there any rules which could be used,
so I could prepare to
>>>>>>>>>>>> these cycles?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Current script just download everything
and commit it in the
>>>>>>>>>>>> cordova-docs repository.
>>>>>>>>>>>> What I think is that it could be effective
is that I take
>>>>>>>>>>>> responsibility
>>>>>>>>>>>> for maintaining Russian translation and Victor
would maintain
>>>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>>> translations, like it was before. And downloading
script could
>>>>>>>>>>>> be modified
>>>>>>>>>>>> to include language which should be downloaded,
so this allow
>>>>>>>>>>>> explicit
>>>>>>>>>>>> control which languages is created. I recently
cleanup a lot of
>>>>>>>>>>>> files from
>>>>>>>>>>>> probably Crowdin mistakes, and don't want
that this would be
>>>>>>>>>>>> introduced
>>>>>>>>>>>> again.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Victor Adrian Sosa Herrera
>>>>>>> IBM Software Engineer
>>>>>>> Guadalajara, Jalisco
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>

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