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From Chuck Lantz <cla...@microsoft.com>
Subject RE: Independent platform release summary
Date Thu, 09 Oct 2014 20:44:57 GMT
Okay - so - there's a pretty nasty CLI blocker bug right now.  Plugins with dependencies don't
install (this affects all platforms).  In my opinion, we need to get a CLI release out really
soon.  Are we closed on this topic, or do we need to look at doing the old process to get
this out the door while we are still talking?

There are also a series of other bugs in the currently tagged "3.6.4" platforms for Android,
Windows, and Windows Phone 8.  These can be handled independently, but the CLI bug can't.

https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CB-7670

-Chuck

-----Original Message-----
From: Treggiari, Leo [mailto:leo.treggiari@intel.com] 
Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 12:23 PM
To: Michal Mocny
Cc: Marcel Kinard; dev
Subject: RE: Independent platform release summary

I’ll have to admit that this seems a bit weird.  That is, independent versions of the CLI
and platforms, with a “Cordova release” named “something” – e.g. a date?

Imagine a user wants to know whether the new whitelist entry in config.xml is supported in
the versions of CLI and platforms that they have – assuming they understand the distinction
between the CLI and platforms to begin with.  They use some command to list the versions of
the “things” (CLI and platforms) they have installed.  They go to the individual documentation
of the “things” and try to figure it out.

The way the Cordova documentation works today is nice with the combo box where I can select
a Cordova version – 3.6.0, 3.5.0, ...  What would the combo box contain in the new versioning
scheme and how many entries would there be?  Are the answers “dates” and “lots of dates”?
 Or would there be no Cordova version documentation other than an explanation of how to get
the list of “things” you currently have and where to find the documentation on them.

To “pin” or not to “pin.

Note that, to me, the pinning choice defines what happens when I use “cordova {plugin |
platform} add foo” with no specific version specified.

I’ve understood, so far at least, that plugins are not pinned (an add always fetches something)
and platforms are pinned to a CLI version (an add tells the CLI that I will be using that
platform (already installed) for this project).  Everything I have read which includes 1 book
and the on-line project documentation, suggest that, even if not stating it explicitly.  E.g.
plugins talk about “fetching” and platforms don’t.  There is a way to fetch a specific
version of platform support.  That’s good and if I do that it is up to me to understand
the compatibility of the specific version I requested.

Is this true?  If so then the npm cordova behavior seems weird.  That is, if I “npm install
cordova” I get a set of pinned platforms.  If I “npm update cordova”, I get a new CLI
and nothing else – i.e. not the platforms that were pinned to that version of the CLI?

Should the plugin and platform ‘pin’ behavior be the same?

Should both be pinned?  Some may find this alternative “blasphemous” but the core plugin
versions tested with a version of the CLI could be pinned to the version of the CLI.

Should both not be pinned?  It would be more consistent and if users are OK with plugins being
unpinned, why not platforms?

But maybe plugins and platforms are different.  Plugins are purely run-time code.  Platforms
are primarily tooling with some run-time code.  Does that difference make the current pinning
behavior the best choice.

Maybe, but personally I would prefer both to be pinned – i.e. I install a version of Cordova,
and until I update it, every time I add a platform or ‘core’ plugin, I get the same thing.

Leo

From: mmocny@google.com [mailto:mmocny@google.com] On Behalf Of Michal Mocny
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2014 1:47 PM
To: Treggiari, Leo
Cc: Michal Mocny; Marcel Kinard; dev
Subject: Re: Independent platform release summary

With this direction, there is no single number.  Users should not functionally care about
CLI version, so there will just be the platform versions that matter, really.

Downstreams can of course put labels on combinations of versions, so "PhoneGap 4" may be Android
4, iOS 3.8, and etc.

On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 4:39 PM, Treggiari, Leo <leo.treggiari@intel.com<mailto:leo.treggiari@intel.com>>
wrote:
> Did I miss anything?

I don't think we closed on this (I had to leave the meeting a little early) but a remaining
question is how to version what we (and users) call "Cordova".  Assuming a "Cordova" version
is a point in time collection of the latest CLI version + platform versions + plugin versions.
 Is the Cordova version semver (using what algorithm with respect to its contained components)
or is that what you meant by  ""latest as of Oct 2014" or something".

Thanks,
Leo

-----Original Message-----
From: mmocny@google.com<mailto:mmocny@google.com> [mailto:mmocny@google.com<mailto:mmocny@google.com>]
On Behalf Of Michal Mocny
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2014 1:13 PM
To: Michal Mocny
Cc: Marcel Kinard; dev
Subject: Re: Independent platform release summary Thanks everyone for participation in what
was a long and grueling discussion.

Summary of current proposal:
- Cad-ver is dead.
- Everything moves Sem-ver, with platforms continuing from current versions and diverging
over time.
- CLI potentially gets a significant version bump to showcase this reset (to 5.0 or 10.0,
not yet settled)
- Pinning default platform versions *will* continue for the time being, but it will be trivial
to override the default.
- Platforms will have CLI <engine> tag equivalent (unclear yet if as node peerDependency
or otherwise) so devs will know when they need to upgrade/downgrade CLI for non-default platform
versions.
- After a platform update, eventually CLI will release to "pin" the new default, and bump
its PATCH/MINOR version (unless CLI had a functional update at same time that requires a larger
bump).
- After you update CLI, your existing projects don't change & platform upgrades remain
explicit, but you will now get warnings if your installed platforms are older than the CLI
pinned versions.
- Event MAJOR changes to platforms are not MAJOR updates to the CLI, unless there is an actual
breaking change to the CLI tool (i.e. new CLI will no longer work with the currently installed
platform).
- Platform and CLI docs have to split out and be released & versioned alongside each (like
plugins).  Cross references from one to the other will only be needed in a few places.


Note: The CLI-Platform compatibility story is functionally no different than we have today.
 If you upgrade your CLI and there is a breaking change, you will have to re-create your projects
or downgrade CLI again.
Now we plan to be more explicit about it and offer warnings.

Note: There is no concept of a "fancy-pants" release other than to say "latest as of Oct 2014"
or something.  Platforms don't have a single common set of functionality, so CadVer was somewhat
misleading already in that sense.  We could introduce a concept of "API Level" for exec bridge
or something for use by plugins, but not sure that has value.


What wasn't covered that came to mind after the fact:
- When there is an update available for CLI, should we give a warning to update? (this is
useful, but isn't common for npm modules.  I think we already do this from plugman when you
try to publish plugins?).


Did I miss anything?

-Michal

On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 12:35 PM, Michal Mocny <mmocny@chromium.org<mailto:mmocny@chromium.org>>
wrote:

> External Public link for those that just want to watch/chat:
> https://plus.google.com/events/cm4l0vifcig920qkhpn5stqiet4
>
> Hangout link to join the conversation:
> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYcNwXEyet4Xv_23HiTl4I
> K0jsM4NlmGy5kbLsPIW3SnOsUEIQ?authuser=0&hl=en
>
> See you in 30 minutes.
>
> On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 12:33 PM, Michal Mocny <mmocny@chromium.org<mailto:mmocny@chromium.org>>
wrote:
>
>> +dev list again
>>
>> Not everyone could make 1pm, not everyone could make 2pm.  While I 
>> don't think we need a full 2 hours, I'm hoping to start late and end 
>> early -- proving opportunity people to pop in at either time and chime in.
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 12:18 PM, Marcel Kinard 
>> <cmarcelk@gmail.com<mailto:cmarcelk@gmail.com>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Is the expected duration 1 hour or 2 hours?
>>>
>>> On Oct 8, 2014, at 10:56 AM, Michal Mocny <mmocny@chromium.org<mailto:mmocny@chromium.org>>
wrote:
>>>
>>> > So it looks like Today 1-3 EST or Friday 1-3 EST are the best times.
>>> I'm
>>> > going to start the ball rolling to do this TODAY, but if that 
>>> > proves
>>> too
>>> > short notices we'll move it to Friday.
>>> >
>>> > I'll email out links to hangout at 12:30 or so, and I'm hoping 
>>> > Steven
>>> can
>>> > make it before 2pm since he's been most active with releases recently.
>>> >
>>> > -Michal
>>>
>>>
>>
>

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