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From Joe Bowser <>
Subject Re: ApacheCon session recording: Releasing Apache Software
Date Thu, 05 Jun 2014 18:10:47 GMT
Looks like I forgot to permalink the thread:

On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:59 AM, Joe Bowser <> wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:43 AM, Marvin Humphrey <> wrote:
>> On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 12:50 PM, Joe Bowser <> wrote:
>>> I'm asking because of this:
>>> So, another criticism of the ASF is the fact that as committers we
>>> have zero say on the process because committers aren't members, and
>>> only members can really cause any change.  I question the
>>> effectiveness of this given that the board for the most part hasn't
>>> changed in years.
>>> Furthermore, as a project of the ASF, we have no idea what's going on
>>> with the project that holds the copyright for our code.
>> The same situation exists with Cordova's project-specific private list
>> from the perspective of Cordova users who are not PMC members, no?
> The only thing that SHOULD be private on the lists is the selection of
> PMC members and security issues, and a part of me doesn't even like
> the latter very much when things are already public elsewhere (i.e. in
> BugTraq).  I personally get annoyed when other things show up on
> private because it feels like we're being dishonest and hiding
> something from our users.  There's also the fact that people use
> private lists to say things that they wouldn't dare say in public.
> I'll happily be rude to someone in public to their face, because to do
> otherwise is dishonest.
>> Ideally, only subjects which truly require discretion such as personnel
>> issues, security, trademarks and so on get discussed on private lists.
>> In practice, things are messy and sometimes conscious effort is required
>> to move conversations public, but the diversity of the ASF Membership
>> guards against subterfuge at the org level just as the diversity of the
>> Cordova PMC guards against it at the project level.
> What sort of subterfuge are you referring to?  It isn't related to
> this thread on legal, is it?

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