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From "Terence M. Bandoian" <tere...@tmbsw.com>
Subject Re: adding platforms to npm for dependency sanity
Date Wed, 04 Jun 2014 19:44:49 GMT
This is helpful.  Thank you for posting this, Carlos.  I have a couple 
of related questions.

The config files I've used iOS and Android are significantly different 
for the same project.  Is combining everything for all platforms into 
one config.xml recommended?

What cordova commands cause the www folder to be copied to a platforms 
directory?  My workflow for iOS/Xcode is typically (similar for 
Android/Eclipse):

- add/build iOS platform using cordova
- edit, build, test iteratively in Xcode using platforms/ios directory

Xcode doesn't copy from the outer www directory when it builds. Should 
it?  All of the files added to the Xcode project are in the 
platforms/ios directory.

-Terence


On 6/4/2014 10:10 AM, Carlos Santana wrote:
> I think regardless how much sugar we use to make it easy, I think the under
> the hood foundation/architecture should be something like:
>
> LocalProject/www/
> LocalProject/config.xml
> LocalProject/package.json
> LocalProject/node_module/.bin/cordova
>
> config.xml (manages the cordova app)
> package.json (manages the cordova project)
>
> pacakge.json (will specify all dependencies and npm will take care of
> fulfill them)
> {
> cordova: ">3.6",
> cordova-ios: "3.6.1",
> cordova-android: "3.6.2",
> cordova-plugin-device: "*",
> cordova-plugin-file: "^0.2.4"
> }
> npm install will take care of making everything available locally.
>
> I know that we don't have plugins in npm, but something to think about, in
> terms of just a secondary repository to download the files and caching.
>
> a global @cordova-cli, can be available like grunt-cli, to look first in
> local directory (i.e. findup)
>
> like someone mentioned npm installs hooks can run the "cordova platform add"
>
> this way minimal set of files can be put a dev repo, and reproduce by
> another developer very easy both getting same resulting project.
>
> git clone https://github.com/myuser/cordovapp && cd cordovapp && npm
> install && cordova run android
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 6:35 PM, Terence M. Bandoian <terence@tmbsw.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I still consider myself a relative newcomer to Cordova but, from a
>> development standpoint, it would be easiest for me if I could manage each
>> platform of a project independently - including plugins.  Creating a
>> parallel project to make sure that the plugins and Cordova base don't
>> change for one platform while I work on another isn't ideal but it isn't
>> completely unmanageable either.  It just makes the workflow a little more
>> complex.
>>
>> -Terence
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6/3/2014 7:12 PM, Michal Mocny wrote:
>>
>>> We don't do platform-plugin version matching *at all* today.  Everyone
>>> uses
>>> the latest plugins and any platform version they want, and its been
>>> "fine".
>>>    So using different platform versions isn't as hard as you guys are
>>> making
>>> it out to be.
>>>
>>> Still, I've already said its not necessarily a complexity that needs to be
>>> addressed in a world where you can create multiple projects and use
>>> --link-to or whatever, so long as your platforms aren't installed
>>> globally.
>>>
>>>
>>> Anyway, thanks for posting your instructions Brian/Tommy.  As I mentioned
>>> it would be, thats a different workflow than we have now.  I'm going to
>>> sleep on it before I comment, but it certainly isn't just like "You know
>>> how we do it today".
>>>
>>> -Michal
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 7:59 PM, tommy-carlos williams <tommy@devgeeks.org
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>   I don’t think you really can forget about plugins for a second.
>>>> In my personal opinion, the entire ./platforms folder should be a build
>>>> artefact. If you want to freeze iOS, then use a branch or a new clone of
>>>> the project.
>>>>
>>>> It’s not that I can think of no scenarios where supporting multiple
>>>> platform versions would be needed, it’s just that I think it’s needlessly
>>>> complex vs using a dev workflow to solve those problems.
>>>>
>>>> I already version cordova within a project… I have a local version of
>>>> cordova installed into ./node_modules for each project and use Grunt to
>>>> call ./node_modules/.bin/cordova rather than the global cordova cli.
>>>>
>>>> On 4 June 2014 at 9:46:29, Terence M. Bandoian (terence@tmbsw.com)
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Forgetting about plugins for a second, what if:
>>>>
>>>> - I complete a project for iOS
>>>> - six months later the client decides to port to Android and:
>>>> - I want the latest fixes for Android
>>>> - I want to keep the iOS version frozen for the time being
>>>>
>>>> I would expect releases for each platform to be on different schedules.
>>>>
>>>> -Terence
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 6/3/2014 6:17 PM, Michal Mocny wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Most plugins will work across a wide range of platform versions, so
>>>>> often
>>>>> it would work to have disparate platform versions even with plugins.
>>>>> However, I do concede that in general this isn't a complexity we focus
>>>>>
>>>> on.
>>>>
>>>>> Interested in your thoughts about the other points.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Michal
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 7:07 PM, tommy-carlos williams <
>>>>>
>>>> tommy@devgeeks.org>
>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>   You can’t have version x of a plugin for iOS and version y of that same
>>>>>> plugin for Android, so multiple platform versions seems like a
>>>>>>
>>>>> complexity
>>>>> for complexity’s sake.
>>>>>> It’s true that different apps need to support different platform
>>>>>>
>>>>> versions,
>>>>> but I would suspect that the greatest majority of those would want the
>>>>> same
>>>>> version of iOS and Android in app x.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 4 June 2014 at 9:04:42, Brian LeRoux (b@brian.io) wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That is the thing: you do not EVER want to have disparate versions of
>>>>>> platforms. Plugins negate this potential fantasy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You want version locked deps. You want to use package.json to do that
>>>>>>
>>>>> b/c
>>>>> that is what the runtime we use has standardized itself on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Terence M. Bandoian <terence@tmbsw.com
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   A typical use case might be:
>>>>>>> -project1
>>>>>>> -project1-ios
>>>>>>> -project1-android
>>>>>>> -project1-windows
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> -projectN
>>>>>>> -projectN-ios
>>>>>>> -projectN-android
>>>>>>> -projectN-windows
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> with a different platform version for each sub-project.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Would CLI be installed globally? Locally for each sub-project? Would a
>>>>>>> project-platform have to be re-built if a plugin were added?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Terence
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 6/3/2014 1:47 PM, Michal Mocny wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   Okay, so I think that implies:
>>>>>>>> (a) CLI versions tied to very specific platform versions ==> to
>>>>>>>> switch
>>>>>>>> platform versions you must switching CLI versions ==> switching one
>>>>>>>> platform version switches all platform versions.
>>>>>>>> - Andrew pointed out this is currently the case, and is a problem
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> leads to users not updating CLI as often as they otherwise would
>>>>>>>> - I think this basically implies platforms cannot be independently
>>>>>>>> versioned (sure the semver numbers may differ, but for all practical
>>>>>>>> purposes, you would use platforms from the same release date, based
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> CLI
>>>>>>> version).
>>>>>>>> (b) Require apps to depend on specific CLI version, assuming you mean
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> a local package.json:
>>>>>>>> - Now all cordova projects must be node projects, which they
>>>>>>>> currently
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> not.
>>>>>>>> - Currently the cordova-cli creates apps, so we have a globally
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> installed
>>>>>>> bootstrapping cordova-cli, and a locally installed specific version
>>>>>>>> cordova-cli, a-la grunt/gulp. (this idea was thrown around before).
>>>>>>>> - Quite a dramatic change for cordova workflow, surely larger than
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> current proposal.
>>>>>>>> - Or we drop cordova-cli entirely and just publish grunt/gulp plugins
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> to
>>>>> "add cordova" to your existing web app. Thats an even more radical
>>>>>>>> departure and significant work.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Michal
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Brian LeRoux <b@brian.io> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No, at least not how I'd see it done.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1.) Updating is important. Staying current: encouraged.
>>>>>>>>> 2.) I'd make my App depend on a specific CLI version. I'd call into
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> using npm scripts.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 10:48 AM, Michal Mocny <mmocny@chromium.org>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thinking it through, if cordova platforms are deps of the CLI, to
>>>>>>>>> install a
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>   specific version you wouldn't just do:
>>>>>>>>>>   npm install -g cordova-ios@3.4.1
>>>>>>>>>>>   you would actually need to:
>>>>>>>>>>   cd $(npm config get prefix)/lib/node_modules/cordova
>>>>>>>>>>> npm install --save cordova-ios@3.4.1
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>   ..and then remember to do that again whenever you `npm update -g`
>>>>>>>>>> ..and its harder to have multiple platform versions for different
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>   projects
>>>>>>>>>   (questionable if this is useful for devs outside of cordova
>>>>>>>>>> contributors,
>>>>>>>>>> but may be useful at last test upgrades when we ship new platform
>>>>>>>>>> versions).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -Michal
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Brian LeRoux <b@brian.io> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> NIH: not invented here
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 10:17 AM, Andrew Grieve <
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> agrieve@chromium.org
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 12:19 PM, Brian LeRoux <b@brian.io> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Actually that was >0 LOC which is a fine argument if you ask me.
>>>>>>>>>>>> And
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>   both know there is much more to it than just that. lazy_load…for
>>>>>>>>>>>> example.
>>>>>>>>>>>> If you're concerned about code, there is a tonne of much
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>   lower-hanging
>>>>>>>>>> fruit.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Bundling platforms is bundling a dep that we require to operate.
>>>>>>>>>>> We
>>>>> do
>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> require plugins to operate. You cannot build a project without
>>>>>>>>>>>>>   having a
>>>>>>>>>>> platform and, indeed, you probably want more than one.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't require blackberry to create an iOS project. But I do
>>>>>>>>>>>> require
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>   some
>>>>>>>>>>>   plugins. We use "npm cache add" to download plugins, I don't see
>>>>>>>>>>> how
>>>>> platforms would not work just as easily.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Agree that we need discreet versioning: hence why I'm advocating
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>> use
>>>>>>>>>>> well understood, maintained, and effectively standard system for
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> doing
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> this. We do not need NIH dependencies that is what package.json is
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> for!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't know what NIH dependencies are. Googling suggests you're
>>>>>>>>>>> talking
>>>>>>>>>>> about drugs...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> We *are* using npm for downloading, we're just not making the
>>>>>>>>>>>> user
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>   type
>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> directly.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Mark's approach also avoids the "what-if" cases where what's in
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>> node_modules might not match what's in your platforms/
>>>>>>>>>>>> Does what Mark has implemented not address a use-case of yours?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Or
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>   are
>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>   going back & forth over personal preference?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>   On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 9:07 AM, Andrew Grieve <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>   agrieve@chromium.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 11:34 AM, Brian LeRoux <b@brian.io>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Andrew, you misunderstand. I am talking about bundling
>>>>>>>>>>> platforms
>>>>>>>>>>>>> directly
>>>>>>>>>>> as dependencies of the CLI.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A trivial example:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CLI
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> '-ios
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wherein, CLI declares the precise version of the platform it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   uses.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> We
>>>>>>>>>>>   could
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wildcard. I don't know that we want or need to do that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It would have identical semantics to today except the download
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   penalty
>>>>>>>>>>>>> happens up front. (We can remove lazy_load logic. We don't have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintain
>>>>>>>>>>>> our own dependency manifests and caches. LESS code: good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   thing.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me paste the code for doing our own caching for you:
>>>>>>>>>>> cordova_npm: function lazy_load_npm(platform) {
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if (!(platform in platforms)) {
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> return Q.reject(new Error('Cordova library "' +
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   platform
>>>>>>>>>>>> +
>>>>>>>>>>>   '"
>>>>>>>>>>>>   not recognized.'));
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> var pkg = 'cordova-' + platform + '@' +
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> platforms[platform].version;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> return Q.nfcall( npm.load, {cache:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   path.join(util.libDirectory,
>>>>>>>>>>>> 'npm_cache') })
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> .then(function() {
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> return Q.ninvoke(npm.commands, 'cache', ['add',
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   pkg]);
>>>>>>>>>>>> }).then(function(info) {
>>>>>>>>>>> var pkgDir = path.resolve(npm.cache, info.name,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   info.version,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>   'package');
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> return pkgDir;
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> });
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> },
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There's really no "amount of code" argument here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Adding platforms at a specific version would mean having a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specific
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> version
>>>>>>>>>>>> of the CLI. Yes: this is way better! Explicit dependencies is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> best
>>>>>>>>>>> way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to work w/ the small modules thing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bundling platforms with CLI would be like bundling all of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plugins
>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>> CLI, or like bundling every npm module with npm.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Devs need to be able to try out platforms at different
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> versions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   We
>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>> not do anything that keeps users clinging to old versions of CLI
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   (e.g.
>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> do this now because they don't want to update to new platforms)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 7:34 PM, Michal Mocny <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   mmocny@chromium.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 10:14 PM, Andrew Grieve <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> agrieve@chromium.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Here's both flows as I understand them:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Direct NPM flow:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> # Downloads platform source into node_modules
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> npm install cordova-ios@3.4.0 --save
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> # Runs the create script and installs plugins to create
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   platforms/ios
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cordova platform add ios --path=node_modules/cordova-ios
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be fair, I think with Brian's suggestion, platform add FOO
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>>>>> default look in node_modules so you wouldn't be explicit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it,
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the default cordova project package.json would depend on all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> latest
>>>>>>>>>>>> versions of each platform, so the flows would actually be:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cordova create Foo && cd Foo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> npm install
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> npm install cordova-ios@3.4 --save
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cordova platform add android
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cordova platform add ios
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> # crazy idea? use npm post-install hooks to auto-run
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   create/upgrade
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you usually don't need above two lines?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Compared to:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   cordova create Foo && cd Foo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cordova platform add android
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cordova platform add ios@3.4
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   I think #2 is enough better that its not worth changing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cordova-to-npm flow (as Mark's implemented):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> # Runs "npm cache add cordova-ios", then runs create script
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~/cache/cordova-ios/bin/create
>>>>>>>>>>>>> cordova platform add ios@3.4.0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - In both flows: we use npm to do all of the heavy lifting
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - In both flows: the npm module is cached in your home
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   directory
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - In both flows?: we store the plugins & platforms
>>>>>>>>>>>>> explicitly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> within
>>>>>>>>>>> config.xml (Gorkem's added this)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - In flow #1, we have a package.json & a node_modules, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   #2
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>   don't.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Why put the onus on the user to fetch the platform source
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> easy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as running "npm cache add" under-the-hood?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In regards to the idea of using require() on platform
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   scripts
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instead
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> subshelling: I think this is tangental to the debate of how
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fetch
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> platform.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In regards to using "npm install" directly when using the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   plugman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> workflow:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sounds good to me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 6:05 PM, Brian LeRoux <b@brian.io>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Eventually, yes. (Sort of how Grunt works now.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 5:52 PM, Terence M. Bandoian <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   terence@tmbsw.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can multiple versions of a platform be installed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> side-by-side?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Terence
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/2/2014 3:04 PM, Michal Mocny wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >From original email: "Ideal future CLI uses platforms
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deps.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We lose lazy loading but network and disk is cheap so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wasn't
>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> important anyhow."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Made me think Brian is proposing adding platforms to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   cli
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> package.json
>>>>>>>>>>> dependencies, and you would have a single global
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> install
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cordova-platforms.
>>>>>>>>>>> Then you can override the version with an explicit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   install
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   mentions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "npm i cordova-ios@3.5.0".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Personally, I think that workflow could work, and has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few
>>>>>>>>>>> benefits,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure that option compares well to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alternative
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>   just
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lazy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> loading using npm cache add as Mark has already
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> implemented
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>>>>   experiment
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (anyone interested in this topic should take a look at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> patch).
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The steps Brian & Ian outline about how to package
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> platforms
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> release
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> npm are possibly an improvement over the old-style
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   platform-centric
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> workflow. Instead of downloading a tarball and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> running
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>   create
>>>>>>>>>>>> script,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you npm install and run a create() function, and that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>> easily
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   bundled into other build scripts/boilerplate. For CLI
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> workflow,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that there is any real difference (as Jesse says).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> note,
>>>>>>>>>>> though:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cordova-* platforms are templates for projects, so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> package.json
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> npm package itself shouldn't end up inside projects
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>> created
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it. I think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Michal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 3:42 PM, Ian Clelland <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   iclelland@chromium.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There seems to be some confusion -- I think people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> talking
>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different things here, but perhaps it's just me ;)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thought that Brian's original suggestion was about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   being
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> able
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> host
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cordova platforms directly on NPM. That's why each
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>> require
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   package.json. (which would probably end up in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <project>/platforms/<platform> in a project, but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   that's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> point
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As an NPM project, we then would have the opportunity
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   (though
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obligation) to make all of the supporting scripts for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> each
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> platform
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (create, build, run, etc) part of the node module,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>   uniform
>>>>>>>>>>>> interface
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that doesn't require going through the command line.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's not about making platforms into CLI dependencies
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   (any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plugins are CLI dependencies right now), or about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> making
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>   cordova-based
>>>>>>>>>>>>> project into a node package.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If that's right, then I support that -- I'd like the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   platforms
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> installable through npm, and to be versioned
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> separately,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> installable
>>>>>>>>>>>> separately, and scriptable without having to spawn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> subshells.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And if I have it completely wrong, then let me know
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll
>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   back
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fixing File bugs ;)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 3:29 PM, Andrew Grieve <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   agrieve@chromium.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not sure what your question is.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 2:03 PM, Brian LeRoux <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   b@brian.io>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> *ahem
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 11:20 AM, Brian LeRoux <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   b@brian.io
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> npm i cordova-ios@3.5.0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 27, 2014 11:06 PM, "Andrew Grieve" <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   agrieve@chromium.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lazy loading is what will give us the ability to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   support
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> multiple
>>>>>>>>>>>>> versions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of platforms.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   If we don't support users choosing the version of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> platform
>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then they will resist updating their version of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   CLI
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (like
>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   I'm very keen to allow users to chose their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> platform
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> versions,
>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are able to choose their plugin versions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 5:57 PM, Mark Koudritsky
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kamrik@google.com
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   Steve published (some of?) the platforms on npm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> part
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>   the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> latest
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> release.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.npmjs.org/package/cordova-android
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.npmjs.org/package/cordova-ios
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CLI already require()s npm for downloading
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   plugins
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> registry.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Extending this to platforms is on my todo list for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this\next
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> week.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The "lazy" part of the loading was about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> caching,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>>   we
>>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lose
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> npm does its own caching.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, May 27, 2014 at 5:42 PM, Parashuram
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   Narasimhan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (MS
>>>>>>>>>>>>> OPEN
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> TECH)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> panarasi@microsoft.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1. This will also be a step towards releasing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> platforms
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> independently.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Will the CLI have a semver like dependency on
>>>>
>


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