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From Ian Clelland <iclell...@chromium.org>
Subject Re: Rant about translation process
Date Tue, 20 May 2014 13:00:50 GMT
I've moved the issue to "Translation" from "Docs", and assigned it to Lisa.

I don't think we automatically assign issues to component owners anymore --
there were too many issues that looked like someone was working on them,
when in reality, they had never been seen. Does anyone know if it's
possible to do that again for some components (say, Translation), while
leaving them unassigned for others (like iOS and Android)?


On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 11:24 AM, Andrey Kurdumov
<kant2002@googlemail.com>wrote:

> Here the issues with translation.
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CB-6464
> I could not assign them to you since I don't have rights for that
>
>
> 2014-05-19 21:21 GMT+06:00 Andrey Kurdumov <kant2002@googlemail.com>:
>
> > Thanks, by no means don't want to have any personal offence, still looks
> > like I do that. I understand that there a lot of moving parts going in
> the
> > Cordova and you have other responsibilities, not only docs. Just want
> > that same situation does not appear on other language. Rereading
> > translation one more time always good thing.
> >
> > 1. Probably that would be the best and address all my issues and
> concerns.
> > I definitely would like to finish translation of current documentation to
> > Russian fully. Then updating it would be much easier.
> > 2 & 3. I create issues for such things in the JIRA, will assign them to
> > you.
> > 4. That was earlier, not now.
> > 5. That's debatable topic, I just think that better not have translation,
> > then have translation only using machine translation. Again if I would be
> > responsible for translation that would be no point of for debates, since
> I
> > would be only person to blame for machine translation.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> >
> > 2014-05-19 19:28 GMT+06:00 Lisa Seacat DeLuca <ldeluca@us.ibm.com>:
> >
> > Andrey~
> >>
> >> I'm sorry you feel so frustrated with the translation process.
>  Hopefully
> >> I can address some of your concerns:
> >>
> >>    1. We don't have someone who "owns" any/each of the languages.  So no
> >>    one goes in an "approves" anything.  This is probably why none of
> your
> >>    translations are marked as approved, Andrey, even when they ARE used
> for
> >>    the Russian documentation when it goes live.  If you would like to
> take on
> >>    that role and own the Russian pieces I'd be more than happy to add
> you as a
> >>    language owner and you can help to mark things as correct.  Right
> now I am
> >>    the only administrator and I do not speak any other languages besides
> >>    English so it does not make sense for me to check language
> translations for
> >>    accuracy.
> >>    2. You mentioned there were code pieces that should've been marked as
> >>    ignore by the system.  PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHEN YOU SEE THOSE.  I do
> my best
> >>    to mark as many as I can but there are situations where I miss them.
>  If
> >>    you can send me the file  name and a screen shot I will prompty mark
> them
> >>    as ignore.
> >>    3. You mentioned you opened JIRA issues.  Were they not automatically
> >>    assigned to me?  If they aren't, please assign them to me so I can
> view
> >>    them.  I didn't realize there were issues open and unassigned, I
> will do a
> >>    better job of going in and checking for translation issues
> specifically.
> >>    4. You said you have tried to contact me from Crowdin, according to
> >>    my Crowdin message inbox I do no have any new messages from you.
> >>    5. To your point about NOT using machine translation I would have to
> >>    strongly disagree with that point.  Because of the fact that we are
> able to
> >>    ignore code snippets and have partial translation from individuals
> and
> >>    complete the translations by the machine the translations will make
> more
> >>    sense than a 100% machine translated result which is what you'd get
> from
> >>    the browser.  Having the code snippets adds value.  Additionally, we
> can't
> >>    push out partial translations and if we don't get to 100% then we'll
> never
> >>    have any other languages translated.  By not using machine
> translation the
> >>    hard work from translated will go unnoticed.
> >>
> >>
> >> To your point about contribution and recognition we have been talking
> >> about how we can recognize translators efforts.  So I'm all ears with
> ideas
> >> there.  We can include a thank you page on the website perhaps?  Or
> when we
> >> push out a new release we could mention the names of all of the
> translators
> >> for a given release.
> >>
> >> We really do appreciate the translation help that you and our other
> >> translators volunteer to help with.  I am open to trying new things to
> >> improve the process or even going back to the Crowdin team to suggest
> >> enhancements to their product.  Unfortunately, with the lack of
> translators
> >> we have, I don't see having 100% user translations being possible at
> this
> >> time.  But if we can grow in popularity and we all tell a few of our
> >> friends, that is entirely possible and preferred to machine translation.
> >>
> >> Lisa
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Lisa Seacat DeLuca
> >> Mobile Engineer | t: +415.787.4589 | *ldeluca@apache.org*<
> ldeluca@apache.org>| |
> >> *ldeluca@us.ibm.com* <ldeluca@us.ibm.com> | *lisaseacat.com*<
> http://www.lisaseacat.com/>| [image:
> >> follow @LisaSeacat on twitter] <http://www.twitter.com/LisaSeacat>|
> [image:
> >> follow Lisa Seacat DeLuca on linkedin]<
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/lisaseacat>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From:        Andrey Kurdumov <kant2002@googlemail.com>
> >> To:        dev@cordova.apache.org
> >> Date:        05/18/2014 08:55 AM
> >> Subject:        Re: Rant about translation process
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Yes, actual machine translation in Crowdin if handy, as many other
> >> features
> >> which they have. But there some script pushing automatic translation.
> Last
> >> time it creates 2.8K translations under Lisa account. Maybe this is she,
> >> maybe this is setup that way to run automatically before release. That's
> >> why I wrote here.
> >> Last time when I try to reach she, I was able to do that only when I
> post
> >> that to this list, probably she not very often login to Crowdin.
> >>
> >> Right now no translations are approved for Russian. Only one sentence
> from
> >> whole docs is approved, but I suspect that this was just a test, not
> >> actual
> >> approval. If we could approve translations in CrowdIn I could live with
> >> script which automatically pre-translate docs, because that way I still
> be
> >> able see areas which are required attention and caring.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 2014-05-17 0:23 GMT+06:00 Rodrigo Silveira <rsilveira@mozilla.com>:
> >>
> >> > I don't think the machine translation is automatically added to the
> >> docs.
> >> > When you're translating, crowdin shows you bing translation and allows
> >> you
> >> > to populate the translate text box with the translation. I find it
> >> *very*
> >> > handy. I still have to reword it to make it right, but saves me a lot
> of
> >> > time.
> >> >
> >> > Someone must be actively clicking the suggestion and submitting it
> >> without
> >> > review. If you click on one of the translated text that came straight
> >> from
> >> > the machine translated suggestion, you can see the author who
> submitted
> >> the
> >> > translation. I'd suggest contacting them directly. Crowdin has a
> contact
> >> > button on user profiles.
> >> >
> >> > cheers,
> >> > Rodrigo.
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: "Andrey Kurdumov" <kant2002@googlemail.com>
> >> > To: dev@cordova.apache.org
> >> > Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 7:27:54 AM
> >> > Subject: Rant about translation process
> >> >
> >> > In spare time I translate Cordova docs to Russian and found that do
> >> that in
> >> > efficient way is much harder then it should be.
> >> >
> >> > My main pain points is machine translation and the lack of incentive
> to
> >> > support translation of docs in Crowin.
> >> > a) Please don't use machine translation. It is create awful
> translation
> >> > which in no way not looks like Russian text. Reading that text is
> >> probable
> >> > doable task, but I think anybody who don't know English could use
> tools
> >> in
> >> > their browser for machine translation. IE and Chrome has great tools
> for
> >> > that. That's from user perspective, and that's the reason why I start
> >> > translating to Russian myself, I just could not read that crap which
> was
> >> > produced by Bing.
> >> > b) Crowdin has great abilities which could help translating large docs
> >> > easier. It should really help manage translation process. But looks
> like
> >> > Cordova does not have any translation process except using machine
> >> > translation. When doing manual translation I spotted some issues when
> >> text
> >> > which should be locked from translation not locked, and vice versa,
> some
> >> > code in examples was translated and locked from translation later on.
> I
> >> > report these issues about month ago on JIRA, these issues are still
> >> there.
> >> > c) Since machine translation used for translating, and used in
> automated
> >> > way, as a regular translator without admin access to project, I have
> no
> >> way
> >> > to track progress of my work and what's left because almost every time
> >> you
> >> > left project for long time when you comeback you have everything
> >> translated
> >> > and you have to read whole docs again to find spot which was
> translated
> >> > automatically.
> >> >
> >> > I not sure what are current state of other languages, but if
> translation
> >> > process could be adjusted to be less destructive for manual
> >> translation. I
> >> > take this probably too personal because my small progress meter just
> >> jump
> >> > from 81% to 99%, my reward meter is broken, sigh..., and I have to
> >> reread
> >> > whole docs again, since new text could be added to the areas which I
> >> > translated earlier and it was translated automatically which means low
> >> > quality content for grammar-nazi inside me, .
> >> >
> >> > I have some ideas how this could be improved, but that's actually
> >> depends
> >> > on what are you willing to do with translation process and how much
> >> effort
> >> > would be put into it.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks,
> >> > Andrey Kurdyumov
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
>

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