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From Andrey Kurdumov <kant2...@googlemail.com>
Subject Re: Rant about translation process
Date Mon, 19 May 2014 15:24:29 GMT
Here the issues with translation.
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CB-6464
I could not assign them to you since I don't have rights for that


2014-05-19 21:21 GMT+06:00 Andrey Kurdumov <kant2002@googlemail.com>:

> Thanks, by no means don't want to have any personal offence, still looks
> like I do that. I understand that there a lot of moving parts going in the
> Cordova and you have other responsibilities, not only docs. Just want
> that same situation does not appear on other language. Rereading
> translation one more time always good thing.
>
> 1. Probably that would be the best and address all my issues and concerns.
> I definitely would like to finish translation of current documentation to
> Russian fully. Then updating it would be much easier.
> 2 & 3. I create issues for such things in the JIRA, will assign them to
> you.
> 4. That was earlier, not now.
> 5. That's debatable topic, I just think that better not have translation,
> then have translation only using machine translation. Again if I would be
> responsible for translation that would be no point of for debates, since I
> would be only person to blame for machine translation.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> 2014-05-19 19:28 GMT+06:00 Lisa Seacat DeLuca <ldeluca@us.ibm.com>:
>
> Andrey~
>>
>> I'm sorry you feel so frustrated with the translation process.  Hopefully
>> I can address some of your concerns:
>>
>>    1. We don't have someone who "owns" any/each of the languages.  So no
>>    one goes in an "approves" anything.  This is probably why none of your
>>    translations are marked as approved, Andrey, even when they ARE used for
>>    the Russian documentation when it goes live.  If you would like to take on
>>    that role and own the Russian pieces I'd be more than happy to add you as a
>>    language owner and you can help to mark things as correct.  Right now I am
>>    the only administrator and I do not speak any other languages besides
>>    English so it does not make sense for me to check language translations for
>>    accuracy.
>>    2. You mentioned there were code pieces that should've been marked as
>>    ignore by the system.  PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHEN YOU SEE THOSE.  I do my best
>>    to mark as many as I can but there are situations where I miss them.  If
>>    you can send me the file  name and a screen shot I will prompty mark them
>>    as ignore.
>>    3. You mentioned you opened JIRA issues.  Were they not automatically
>>    assigned to me?  If they aren't, please assign them to me so I can view
>>    them.  I didn't realize there were issues open and unassigned, I will do a
>>    better job of going in and checking for translation issues specifically.
>>    4. You said you have tried to contact me from Crowdin, according to
>>    my Crowdin message inbox I do no have any new messages from you.
>>    5. To your point about NOT using machine translation I would have to
>>    strongly disagree with that point.  Because of the fact that we are able to
>>    ignore code snippets and have partial translation from individuals and
>>    complete the translations by the machine the translations will make more
>>    sense than a 100% machine translated result which is what you'd get from
>>    the browser.  Having the code snippets adds value.  Additionally, we can't
>>    push out partial translations and if we don't get to 100% then we'll never
>>    have any other languages translated.  By not using machine translation the
>>    hard work from translated will go unnoticed.
>>
>>
>> To your point about contribution and recognition we have been talking
>> about how we can recognize translators efforts.  So I'm all ears with ideas
>> there.  We can include a thank you page on the website perhaps?  Or when we
>> push out a new release we could mention the names of all of the translators
>> for a given release.
>>
>> We really do appreciate the translation help that you and our other
>> translators volunteer to help with.  I am open to trying new things to
>> improve the process or even going back to the Crowdin team to suggest
>> enhancements to their product.  Unfortunately, with the lack of translators
>> we have, I don't see having 100% user translations being possible at this
>> time.  But if we can grow in popularity and we all tell a few of our
>> friends, that is entirely possible and preferred to machine translation.
>>
>> Lisa
>>
>>
>>
>> Lisa Seacat DeLuca
>> Mobile Engineer | t: +415.787.4589 | *ldeluca@apache.org*<ldeluca@apache.org>|
|
>> *ldeluca@us.ibm.com* <ldeluca@us.ibm.com> | *lisaseacat.com*<http://www.lisaseacat.com/>|
[image:
>> follow @LisaSeacat on twitter] <http://www.twitter.com/LisaSeacat>| [image:
>> follow Lisa Seacat DeLuca on linkedin]<http://www.linkedin.com/in/lisaseacat>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From:        Andrey Kurdumov <kant2002@googlemail.com>
>> To:        dev@cordova.apache.org
>> Date:        05/18/2014 08:55 AM
>> Subject:        Re: Rant about translation process
>> ------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, actual machine translation in Crowdin if handy, as many other
>> features
>> which they have. But there some script pushing automatic translation. Last
>> time it creates 2.8K translations under Lisa account. Maybe this is she,
>> maybe this is setup that way to run automatically before release. That's
>> why I wrote here.
>> Last time when I try to reach she, I was able to do that only when I post
>> that to this list, probably she not very often login to Crowdin.
>>
>> Right now no translations are approved for Russian. Only one sentence from
>> whole docs is approved, but I suspect that this was just a test, not
>> actual
>> approval. If we could approve translations in CrowdIn I could live with
>> script which automatically pre-translate docs, because that way I still be
>> able see areas which are required attention and caring.
>>
>>
>>
>> 2014-05-17 0:23 GMT+06:00 Rodrigo Silveira <rsilveira@mozilla.com>:
>>
>> > I don't think the machine translation is automatically added to the
>> docs.
>> > When you're translating, crowdin shows you bing translation and allows
>> you
>> > to populate the translate text box with the translation. I find it
>> *very*
>> > handy. I still have to reword it to make it right, but saves me a lot of
>> > time.
>> >
>> > Someone must be actively clicking the suggestion and submitting it
>> without
>> > review. If you click on one of the translated text that came straight
>> from
>> > the machine translated suggestion, you can see the author who submitted
>> the
>> > translation. I'd suggest contacting them directly. Crowdin has a contact
>> > button on user profiles.
>> >
>> > cheers,
>> > Rodrigo.
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Andrey Kurdumov" <kant2002@googlemail.com>
>> > To: dev@cordova.apache.org
>> > Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 7:27:54 AM
>> > Subject: Rant about translation process
>> >
>> > In spare time I translate Cordova docs to Russian and found that do
>> that in
>> > efficient way is much harder then it should be.
>> >
>> > My main pain points is machine translation and the lack of incentive to
>> > support translation of docs in Crowin.
>> > a) Please don't use machine translation. It is create awful translation
>> > which in no way not looks like Russian text. Reading that text is
>> probable
>> > doable task, but I think anybody who don't know English could use tools
>> in
>> > their browser for machine translation. IE and Chrome has great tools for
>> > that. That's from user perspective, and that's the reason why I start
>> > translating to Russian myself, I just could not read that crap which was
>> > produced by Bing.
>> > b) Crowdin has great abilities which could help translating large docs
>> > easier. It should really help manage translation process. But looks like
>> > Cordova does not have any translation process except using machine
>> > translation. When doing manual translation I spotted some issues when
>> text
>> > which should be locked from translation not locked, and vice versa, some
>> > code in examples was translated and locked from translation later on. I
>> > report these issues about month ago on JIRA, these issues are still
>> there.
>> > c) Since machine translation used for translating, and used in automated
>> > way, as a regular translator without admin access to project, I have no
>> way
>> > to track progress of my work and what's left because almost every time
>> you
>> > left project for long time when you comeback you have everything
>> translated
>> > and you have to read whole docs again to find spot which was translated
>> > automatically.
>> >
>> > I not sure what are current state of other languages, but if translation
>> > process could be adjusted to be less destructive for manual
>> translation. I
>> > take this probably too personal because my small progress meter just
>> jump
>> > from 81% to 99%, my reward meter is broken, sigh..., and I have to
>> reread
>> > whole docs again, since new text could be added to the areas which I
>> > translated earlier and it was translated automatically which means low
>> > quality content for grammar-nazi inside me, .
>> >
>> > I have some ideas how this could be improved, but that's actually
>> depends
>> > on what are you willing to do with translation process and how much
>> effort
>> > would be put into it.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Andrey Kurdyumov
>> >
>>
>>
>

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