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Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2014 08:22:12 +1000
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Subject: Re: Suggestions for a problem
From: Tommy Williams <tommy@devgeeks.org>
To: dev@cordova.apache.org
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+1 for reapproach
On 09/04/2014 8:20 am, "Brian LeRoux" <b@brian.io> wrote:

> Hold up! The CLI needs to declare dependencies somehow and while we could
> implement our own thing npm will do it better. (Hence this thinking.)
>
> But the good news is we can use >=X.X.X in package.json to allow npm to
> download the latest.
>
> Now that said, it would be cool to allow version pinning, moving away from
> config.xml and just using package.json in Cordova projects. This was
> brought up a while back but we decided this wasn't a big win. Maybe we can
> reapproach.
>
>
> On Apr 9, 2014 6:09 AM, "Andrew Grieve" <agrieve@chromium.org> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Michal Mocny <mmocny@chromium.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 1:32 PM, Andrew Grieve <agrieve@chromium.org>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 3:30 AM, Gorkem Ercan <gorkem.ercan@gmail.com
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I think a tool can just go through all tagged version of the CLI's
> > > > > platforms.js and create the version map. I guess this effectively
> > makes
> > > > CLI
> > > > > versions the Cordova version.
> > > > >
> > > > That's the way I think of it right now as well
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I was looking at the phonegap announcement[1], which got me
> > thinking, I
> > > > > think independent releases may create complications beyond the
> > problems
> > > > > like the one I had. For instance take a moment and try to imagine
> how
> > > one
> > > > > would need to write the same announcement for an independent
> release.
> > > > >
> > > > > By the way, I keep hearing that independent platform releases has
> not
> > > > > happened yet but since iOS has a 3.4.1 release while all other
> > > platforms
> > > > > are 3.4.0 and CLI is getting ready for a release that picks up iOS
> > > 3.4.1
> > > > > what else is missing for it to happen?
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I think if we get this right, we'd be able to release iOS 3.4.1
> > *without*
> > > > having to release a new version of CLI. Just like you don't need to
> > > update
> > > > your version of npm when a new version of cordova-cli comes out.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Does this conflict with the previous statement that tooling versions
> > match
> > > CLI deps?
> > >
> >
> > It does. My hope is that eventually the CLI version won't have any
> mapping
> > to platform versions. It will just ask npm what the latest version is,
> and
> > use that. If users want to pin their versions, they can do so by
> specifying
> > the version on the command-line or in their config.xml.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [1] https://twitter.com/PhoneGapBuild/status/453271589803405313
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Gorkem
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 7:24 PM, Michal Mocny <mmocny@chromium.org>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 7:56 PM, Shazron <shazron@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Looks like you will have to generate this yourself for now. But
> > > > correct
> > > > > > me
> > > > > > > if I'm wrong, if the CLI is at version X.Y.Z, wouldn't the
> > platform
> > > > > > > versions be at least X.Y.Z themselves? At least for the main
> > > > platforms
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't think thats what the proposal was, but as Joe says, this
> > > hasn't
> > > > > > happened yet and so is still up in the air.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Strictly speaking, if we chose to version everything with semver,
> > the
> > > > > > version numbers would diverge over time.  The specific x.y.z of
> one
> > > > > > artifact would be meaningless when compared to other artifacts,
> but
> > > in
> > > > > > exchange potentially more useful when compared to other versions
> of
> > > the
> > > > > > same artifact.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Implicitly, each release happens on a date, and CLI releases on a
> > > given
> > > > > > date depend on the latest releases of each platform.  So, if you
> > have
> > > > any
> > > > > > single artifact, you can get the release date, then the
> > corresponding
> > > > CLI
> > > > > > release, and finally use that to map backwards to specific semver
> > > > > versions
> > > > > > of all platforms.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Personally, though, I'm not sure that we are using Semver to good
> > > > effect
> > > > > at
> > > > > > all, and its just hurting us.  I'd suggest we consider switching
> to
> > > > > > versioning by date (aka the Ubuntu / Chromium / etc model).
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > (android, ios, bb) this would be true I suppose, at least until
> > > 3.5.0
> > > > > > (not
> > > > > > > sure when we are diverging).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Since the CLI is tied to certain platform versions, I don't see
> > why
> > > > the
> > > > > > map
> > > > > > > can't be auto generated.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 4:44 PM, Gorkem Ercan <
> > > gorkem.ercan@gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Would package.json carry the historical data? At the moment,
> my
> > > > plan
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > have a json file that maps CLI versions to platform version
> but
> > > for
> > > > > > every
> > > > > > > > version > 3.0.0. It would be great if such a file is updated
> as
> > > > part
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > release of CLI though.
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > Gorkem
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 5:07 PM, Brian LeRoux <b@brian.io>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Moving to independent platform releases doesn't change
> things
> > > > other
> > > > > > > than
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > mostly arbitrary number we use for issue tracking. This is
> > the
> > > > way
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > > works
> > > > > > > > > today:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > CLI@X.X.X
> > > > > > > > > '- cordova@X.X.X
> > > > > > > > >     |-ios@X.X.X
> > > > > > > > >     '-android@X.X.X
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > This is how it would work in the new world order:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > CLI@X.X.X
> > > > > > > > > |- ios@X.X.X
> > > > > > > > > '-android@X.X.X
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > This means other tool that depends on the version locked
> > > > > convenience
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > Cordova release basically will want to track whatever we do
> > > with
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > CLI
> > > > > > > > > instead. Convienantly we will having this in the Cordova
> > > > > package.json
> > > > > > > so,
> > > > > > > > > hypothetically, this is super easy.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 10:24 AM, Marcel Kinard <
> > > > cmarcelk@gmail.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The way I would summarize this is that enterprises need a
> > way
> > > > to
> > > > > > > > recreate
> > > > > > > > > > a specific environment. This includes our platforms,
> > plugins,
> > > > > > > tooling,
> > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > dependencies. Many enterprises do not desire to live on
> > head,
> > > > > > instead
> > > > > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > > > want to live at a known reproductable state. Before 3.0,
> > this
> > > > was
> > > > > > > > pretty
> > > > > > > > > > straightforward. After 3.0, and additionally potentially
> > > > > releasing
> > > > > > > > > > platforms separately, our definition of "a Cordova
> version"
> > > has
> > > > > > > > basically
> > > > > > > > > > fallen apart (separate timing for plugins and tools,
> > > > > > > non-shrinkwrapped
> > > > > > > > > npm
> > > > > > > > > > dependencies, etc)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Perhaps one way to solve this would be a "Cordova
> version"
> > > > > > identifier
> > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > is a map to the individual versions of all the
> components,
> > > > > similar
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > how
> > > > > > > > > > cordova-cli/platforms.js has a version property for each
> > > > > platform,
> > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > > include tools and even plugins. How often would it make
> > sense
> > > > to
> > > > > > > update
> > > > > > > > > > that version-map and bump the Cordova version? There are
> > > > probably
> > > > > > > > > arguments
> > > > > > > > > > for both a cadence schedule as well as
> > > > > > anytime-any-component-changes.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On Apr 7, 2014, at 5:00 PM, Gorkem Ercan <
> > > > gorkem.ercan@gmail.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > > > > > With the independent platforms releases I have started
> to
> > > run
> > > > > > into
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > problem with my Eclipse tools that I am looking for
> some
> > > > > > > suggestions.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > In the past, Cordova X.Y.Z meant all platforms would be
> > > > tagged
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > released
> > > > > > > > > > > with X.Y.Z. so if Eclipse tools needed to download
> > Cordova
> > > > > > version
> > > > > > > > > X.Y.Z,
> > > > > > > > > > > it could just do so by using the X.Y.Z git tag. Now
> that
> > > > > > platforms
> > > > > > > > can
> > > > > > > > > do
> > > > > > > > > > > independent releases the X.Y.Z tag for may not exist
> for
> > a
> > > > > > release
> > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > platform. So I actually need a way to determine what
> > > platform
> > > > > > > > versions
> > > > > > > > > go
> > > > > > > > > > > together. CLI actually captures that information on
> > > > > platforms.js
> > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > release but this is not enough for Eclipse tools as it
> > does
> > > > not
> > > > > > > > capture
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > data for older releases and Eclipse tools can be
> download
> > > and
> > > > > use
> > > > > > > > older
> > > > > > > > > > > versions.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Is there a place where I can extract this sort of
> > platform
> > > > > > version
> > > > > > > > > > > information?
> > > > > > > > > > > Also in the past, plugins could define engine
> > compatibility
> > > > as
> > > > > > > below
> > > > > > > > > > > <engine name="cordova" version="1.7.0" />
> > > > > > > > > > > How does plugman act with the independent releases now?
> > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > Gorkem
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

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