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From Brian>
Subject Re: Nomination for a new chair for Apache Cordova
Date Wed, 23 Apr 2014 02:36:53 GMT
Coming from Joe's perspective this is year 6 of the source code now known
as Cordova. Jim and others have as much merit in our world as we clearly do
in theirs. It is not uncalled for and very obvious where the sentiment
comes from. Members of the board care deeply about Apache and we care
deeply about Cordova. Finding a respectful and productive balance would be
nice though clearly this is not mandatory.

Anyhow, the very concept of PMC was always intended to be no different than
committer in Cordova. This was understood and acknowledged during
incubation. Despite the language of meritocracy there's a hierarchical
pyramid at Apache (Contributor->Committer->PMC->Member) and we very
deliberately chose to incorporate Committer and PMC Member at the same

If you are good enough to land a patch you are good enough to be involved
in the releasing of it. We have always intended to continue with a flat
structure though given recent board "help" with releasing I could see this
changing too.

Simply put, ideally there is zero barrier to contribute and ship. Anything
that gets in the way of contribution and releasing is inviting higher
chance of project failure. Some of the Apache rules are build up of old
policy that has become meaningless ceremony. We need to get better at
acknowledging that for what it is and fixing Apache. (Another example would
be eradicating the harmful concepts in meritocracy.)

But back at Jim's comment: yes I very much do believe Shaz lives up the
conveniently vague term "The Apache Way" as I understand it [1] but please
do check the facts.


On Tue, Apr 22, 2014 at 6:17 PM, Andrew Grieve <> wrote:

> Joe - totally uncalled for. Not sure where it even came from. If you
> hate Apache so much, then why are you a *volunteer* on an Apache
> project?
> I'm fairly confident that there is not a good understanding of what it
> means to be a PMC, or PMC chair, and Jim is spending his time to help
> us out.
> Jim - thank you.
> On Tue, Apr 22, 2014 at 9:03 PM, Joe Bowser <> wrote:
> > On Tue, Apr 22, 2014 at 5:52 PM, Jim Jagielski <> wrote:
> >> There is one other aspect of the chair which, for a somewhat
> >> newish PMC is important: The entire PMC is responsible for
> >> ensuring that the project is run in a way which abides by,
> >> and embraces, the "Apache Way"... when it doesn't, the
> >> Chair needs to (1) know that the PMC is going awry and
> >> (2) encourage the PMC to fix those problems and (3)
> >> interact w/ the board if the PMC needs help in doing so.
> >>
> >
> > So, who is to protect the PMC from yourself and rest of the board
> > trying to destroy the project with insults and vitriol?  While I
> > believe that Shazron is up to the task, I'm convinced that "The Apache
> > Way" is the worst way to run a software project, and that the Apache
> > Board spends all their time trying to find ways to debate itself into
> > irrelevancy.  I wish that we never joined the ASF, and honestly when
> > you told us that we should leave months ago, I welcomed it.  That
> > being said, we're still here, despite your best efforts. We've seen
> > what happens when the board tries to help, and it generally pisses a
> > bunch of committers off, and ends up with people insulting each other
> > personally.  This response to your first e-mail on this list should
> > not come as any surprise.
> >
> > The fact is that Shaz fits well, because unlike me, he is diplomatic
> > and won't tell you to jump off a cliff every time you or any other
> > Apache person comes in and tries to interfere with our project.
> >
> >
> >> Not knowing Shaz personally, how does that all fit in
> >> with the nomination?
> >>
> >> On Apr 22, 2014, at 5:34 PM, Brian LeRoux <> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hello Cordova community. To this point I've served as the chair for the
> >>> Cordova PMC.
> >>>
> >>> The duties of chair are solely administrative: board reports, and book
> >>> keeping of committer nominations. Some projects at Apache have more
> formal
> >>> incantations. We have, so far, preferred to maintain our lightweight
> >>> approach meaning a committer is a PMC member too. This involves
> sending an
> >>> email, updating a text file in SVN, and running a few perl scripts on
> >>> Keeping those books is important if some day
> >>> there is a dispute to the veracity of our source.
> >>>
> >>> In evaluation of  my current workload these additional book keeping
> >>> responsibilities are not appropriate for me to prioritize and that is
> not
> >>> fair to Cordova.
> >>>
> >>> I'm going to step down as chair for Cordova and I would like to
> nominate
> >>> Shazron Abdullha to take on the role. Shaz has been with the project
> since
> >>> before it was called Cordova. He lands more code than most, interacts
> >>> directly with the community more than anyone, and is committed to work
> on
> >>> Cordova solely full time. He'll be a better chair than I ever was.
> >>>
> >>> I won't be going anywhere and (I hope!) this means I can contribute
> more
> >>> code than emails in the future. We can be formal and go to a vote if
> there
> >>> is objection or interest in seeing someone else take the admin duties
> on.
> >>> Otherwise, I'll aim to shoot the board official notice early next week.
> >>

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