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From Anis KADRI <anis.ka...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: config.xml discussion, we need to talk
Date Fri, 18 Oct 2013 17:14:24 GMT
Erik that's great! Where can we download it?
On Oct 18, 2013 8:01 AM, "Andrew Grieve" <agrieve@chromium.org> wrote:

> Awesome video!!
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 3:43 AM, Erik Jan de Wit <edewit@redhat.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On the topic of IDE support my collage Gorkem has made a nice wizard in
> > eclipse that mimics the CLI have a look at this video
> >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUyUUtmTYok
> >
> > On 18 Oct,2013, at 4:29 , Maxime LUCE <Maxime@somatic.fr> wrote:
> >
> > > Great Bryan
> > > Totally agree !!!
> > >
> > > Cordialement.
> > > -------------------------------
> > > Maxime LUCE - Somatic
> > > maxime.luce@somatic.fr
> > > 06 28 60 72 34
> > > ________________________________
> > > De : Brian LeRoux<mailto:b@brian.io>
> > > Envoyé : 18/10/2013 01:48
> > > À : dev@cordova.apache.org<mailto:dev@cordova.apache.org>
> > > Objet : Re: config.xml discussion, we need to talk
> > >
> > > I don't really appreciate comments that we don't talk to our users, or
> > build apps in anger. Neither of those assertions are true. The origins of
> > these initiatives are based on both community feedback, and direct
> > experience.
> > >
> > > Keeping your focus on just pure platform side of a project is fine, of
> > course, since the CLI delegates to the platform. This was also a
> deliberate
> > learning from MANY attempts at an architecture that satisfies both
> > approaches. It separates the concerns and respects the platform will be
> > canonical for the common workflows supported. This is a very real example
> > of Conway's Law btw. [1]
> > >
> > > Anyhow. Deep breath! Software has bugs, people will report them, and
> > we'll continue to improve. This is a very large group with a very diverse
> > community that spans regular old hackers to the humble web designers. We
> > need to respect that, and maybe be a little more compassionate to each
> > other too. All software is fucked up, and at the end of the day, it is
> our
> > perpetual job to make it a little less fucked up.
> > >
> > > [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway's_law
> > >
> > >
> > > [Inline image 1]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Tommy Williams <tommy@devgeeks.org
> > <mailto:tommy@devgeeks.org>> wrote:
> > > Late to the party due to timezone fun, but I just want to chime in in
> > > support of the CLI.
> > >
> > > As a dev working on an actual nontrivial "real world" app, I would like
> > to
> > > let it be known that we (SpiderOak) have been heavy drinkers of the CLI
> > > Kool-Aid since its infancy.
> > >
> > > We have even managed to get to the point where ./platforms/**/* is
> just a
> > > build artefact (mostly by using hooks and tying the whole thing
> together
> > > with Grunt).
> > >
> > > We have a fast and fairly complex app (both many core plugins as well
> > and a
> > > few custom/third party ones), that even includes the ability to white
> > label
> > > it with relative ease.
> > >
> > > I feel pretty strongly in favour of the CLI and strongly advocate its
> use
> > > when asked in the #phonegap IRC channel.
> > >
> > > Just my opinion, but thought it was important to add to the discussion.
> > >
> > > - tommy / devgeeks
> > > On 18 Oct 2013 04:44, "Anis KADRI" <anis.kadri@gmail.com<mailto:
> > anis.kadri@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Sweet. So I think we all agree (expect Joe perhaps?) that both
> > >> approaches should be supported :-)
> > >>
> > >> On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 10:31 AM, Carlos Santana <
> csantana23@gmail.com
> > <mailto:csantana23@gmail.com>>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>> I meant in addition of ".cordova/lib" also allow also to do something
> > >> like
> > >>> "cordova platform add ios --path="./cordova_components/cordova-ios"
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 1:28 PM, Carlos Santana <
> csantana23@gmail.com
> > <mailto:csantana23@gmail.com>
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> ++1  "to install from a given directory instead of .cordova/libs."
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Viras <
> viras@users.sourceforge.net
> > <mailto:viras@users.sourceforge.net>
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> This might be true - it took me quite some time to figure out
how
> the
> > >> CLI
> > >>>>> actually works - despite also having to fix one or two bugs
for the
> > WPX
> > >>>>> implementation of the CLI code (as well as the Windows 8 CLI
code).
> > But
> > >>>>> still I would hate to see the CLI go, since I think once you
are
> used
> > >> to
> > >>>>> it, it saves you quite a lot of time (I still have those old
> > documents
> > >>>>> which guide me through the setup of the IDE projects for the
> > different
> > >>>>> platforms - which is now mostly obsolete).
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> So I guess supporting both methods is the way to go... :)
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Best,
> > >>>>> Wolfgang
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Am 2013-10-17 16:13, schrieb Michal Mocny:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Thanks so much for chiming in, I'm very happy to see that you've
> > >> figured
> > >>>>>> out how to leverage the benefits and avoid the drawbacks
of the
> new
> > >>>>>> workflow, and that it has led to increased productivity
for you.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> I do think that perhaps it is still too difficult for every
> > developer
> > >> to
> > >>>>>> learn what you already have.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> -Michal
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 12:13 AM, Viras <
> > viras@users.sourceforge.net<mailto:viras@users.sourceforge.net>>
> > >>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> my view on this discussion:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> I've used the CLI to release the latest version of
GOFG Sports
> > >> Computer
> > >>>>>>> for Windows Phone. The support for the "merges" directory
is a
> > >> fantastic
> > >>>>>>> feature which allows me to focus on the javascript
code using
> e.g.
> > >> the
> > >>>>>>> NetBeans IDE - I can finally handle all my platform
specific code
> > >> from
> > >>>>>>> JavaScript in one consistent directory structure -
which is what
> > >> Cordova
> > >>>>>>> should be about.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> In addition the CLI forces you to write clean code
(not implying
> > that
> > >>>>>>> the
> > >>>>>>> other method forces to write messy code). If you need
something
> > >> native
> > >>>>>>> write a clean plugin for it (which also makes the code
reusable)
> -
> > no
> > >>>>>>> need
> > >>>>>>> to mess around in the native projects code - this also
makes
> > >> upgrading
> > >>>>>>> cordova much easier.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Once I've done the Windows Phone version I've simply
added
> Android
> > >> as a
> > >>>>>>> platform, build it and I was done - no need for fiddling
around
> > with
> > >>>>>>> SDK /
> > >>>>>>> IDE setup etc (besides actually installing it). So
CLI is my
> > favorite
> > >>>>>>> way
> > >>>>>>> to develop now - and it is far more powerful than the
old
> approach
> > >> (in
> > >>>>>>> my
> > >>>>>>> opinion) - since it saves you from fiddling around
with project
> > >>>>>>> settings,
> > >>>>>>> etc. when you do a multi-platform release.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Oh yes - and GOFG SC uses two custom plugins, 5 official
plugins
> > and
> > >>>>>>> cordova 3.0 - so it is a bit beyond the "Hello World"
> > application....
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> And I do not agree that it isn't possible to work with
the native
> > >> IDEs
> > >>>>>>> with their own projects - this is simply wrong since
you can
> always
> > >> go
> > >>>>>>> to
> > >>>>>>> the "platforms" directory and open the platform-projects
using
> > their
> > >>>>>>> native
> > >>>>>>> IDE from there (I've done this myself for e.g. plugin
> development).
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Still I agree that both versions should be supported
- but don't
> > make
> > >>>>>>> the
> > >>>>>>> assumption that the CLI is for "n00bs" only!
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Best,
> > >>>>>>> Wolfgang
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Am 2013-10-16 23:11, schrieb Joe Bowser:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 1:37 PM, Michal Mocny <
> mmocny@chromium.org
> > <mailto:mmocny@chromium.org>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Anis: Totally agrees, but its important to highlight
that both
> > >>>>>>>>> directions
> > >>>>>>>>> for that arguments hold.  We've done our best
to support bin/
> > >> scripts
> > >>>>>>>>> post
> > >>>>>>>>> 3.0, yet blanket statements like "CLI should
not be used with
> > >> IDE", or
> > >>>>>>>>> "CLI
> > >>>>>>>>> sucks unless you just doing something trivial"
are being thrown
> > >>>>>>>>> around,
> > >>>>>>>>> which are harmful in my opinion, and I don't
think its fair
> that
> > >> some
> > >>>>>>>>> of
> > >>>>>>>>> us
> > >>>>>>>>> are promoting that message to users.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> I don't think we're communicating with our
users at all, so I
> > >> don't
> > >>>>>>>> see how this could be communicated.  When users
communicate
> their
> > >>>>>>>> frustrations, it's usually something like this
> > >>>>>>>> (http://www.infil00p.org/****config-xml-changes-for-ios-**<
> > >> http://www.infil00p.org/**config-xml-changes-for-ios-**>
> > >>>>>>>> and-android/#comment-10731<htt**p://www.infil00p.org/config-**<
> > http://www.infil00p.org/config-**>
> > >>>>>>>> xml-changes-for-ios-and-**android/#comment-10731<
> > >>
> >
> http://www.infil00p.org/config-xml-changes-for-ios-and-android/#comment-10731
> > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> )
> > >>>>>>>> and this
> > >>>>>>>> (http://www.infil00p.org/****introducing-cordova-3-0-0-for-****
> <
> > >> http://www.infil00p.org/**introducing-cordova-3-0-0-for-**>
> > >>>>>>>> android/#comment-10694<http://**www.infil00p.org/introducing-**
> <
> > http://www.infil00p.org/introducing-**>
> > >>>>>>>> cordova-3-0-0-for-android/#**comment-10694<
> > >>
> >
> http://www.infil00p.org/introducing-cordova-3-0-0-for-android/#comment-10694
> > >>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> ).
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> CLI works well for me, and while its not perfect,
I strive to
> > learn
> > >>>>>>>> its
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> limitations and make it better, not condemn
it.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> I avoid it because it's not developed for me, or
developers like
> > me
> > >>>>>>>> who like to see a big pile of output when things
fail.  I
> avoided
> > >>>>>>>> having any part in its development because I thought
it was the
> > >> wrong
> > >>>>>>>> way to do things.  I assumed that the majority
of users actually
> > >>>>>>>> wanted this and that I should do my best to work
around this,
> but
> > >> with
> > >>>>>>>> the backlash that we're getting, such as the blog
posts and some
> > >>>>>>>> comments on the Google Groups, it seems that this
is a feature
> > very
> > >>>>>>>> few people actually wanted.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> As far as the CordovaWebView use case, I actually
have never
> tried
> > >>>>>>>> that.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Has anyone bothered to make sure it works well
post-3.0, or
> does
> > >> Joe
> > >>>>>>>>> have
> > >>>>>>>>> a point that we missed addressing this?
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> We have JUnit unit tests in the Android repository
to make sure
> > that
> > >>>>>>>> this still works.  However, I would like to see
this test case
> > >>>>>>>> revisited since it may be more appropriate to have
> CordovaActivity
> > >> be
> > >>>>>>>> inherited instead of CordovaInterface, or for both
to be
> > supported.
> > >>>>>>>> This is so that we can make more hybrid applications
and deal
> with
> > >> the
> > >>>>>>>> fact that we're so brutally non-complaint with
Android UI
> > guidelines
> > >>>>>>>> instead of just ignoring it.  I'll probably bring
this up and
> > >> present
> > >>>>>>>> more source code when it's ready to explain why
we need this
> > feature
> > >>>>>>>> in the next couple of weeks, and why it's important
to respect
> the
> > >>>>>>>> platform, even when the platform doesn't respect
the web.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> --
> > >>>>>>> GOFG - Get On Fat Guy
> > >>>>>>> http://www.gofg.at/ - powered by Cordova
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>> --
> > >>>>> GOFG - Get On Fat Guy
> > >>>>> http://www.gofg.at/ - powered by Cordova
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> --
> > >>>> Carlos Santana
> > >>>> <csantana23@gmail.com<mailto:csantana23@gmail.com>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>> Carlos Santana
> > >>> <csantana23@gmail.com<mailto:csantana23@gmail.com>>
> > >>
> > >
> >
> >
>

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