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From Braden Shepherdson <bra...@chromium.org>
Subject Re: config.xml discussion, we need to talk
Date Mon, 21 Oct 2013 15:33:41 GMT
"Less Magic" (bin/create, Plugman) and "More Magic" (CLI).[1]

Mike Billau's suggestions look decent to me. How about "classic" instead of
"legacy"? Removes the "it sucks and will die someday" connotation, since
that's not true.

Braden


On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 11:25 AM, Mike Billau <mike.billau@gmail.com> wrote:

> Lets make the name as confusing as possible, to live up to our history
> (callback, phonegap, cordova.) ;)
>
> Personally I think that the names should try to describe the difference
> between the workflows instead of trying to prescribe some type of usage,
> since there are unknown and developing use cases.
>
> To me the main difference between the workflows is that with the CLI,
> things get merged for you automatically, so I'm in favor of something like
> "CLI/Merges Workflow" and "Non-CLI/Legacy Workflow", and in the very first
> sentence of "Non-CLI/Legacy" we say "It's called "Legacy" because it was
> the pre-3.0 worfklow, not because it is no longer supported."
>
> Michal, we created an item to track the doc changes:
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CB-5122  I think the bulk of the
> workflow discussion can fit into the "Development Paths" section in the
> main Overview Guide. I'll get started but will continue to monitor this
> thread.
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 10:01 AM, Michal Mocny <mmocny@chromium.org>
> wrote:
>
> > (Okay, this thread at high risk of bikeshedding, just going to mention
> that
> > ;)  But I do think it would be great to settle once and for all.
> >
> > I like the distinction Steven/Brian are making: Project flow vs Platform
> > flow.  I'm not sure that those names are immediately 100% clear (I'll
> > ponder over it) but I like the focus points.
> >
> > I think Ian nails the description:  "CLI encourages the "Your cordova web
> > view *IS* your application" mindset"
> >
> > I don't have a big preference one way or the other regarding attaching
> the
> > word "legacy" to the Platform Flow.  I like that it conveys: "the flow
> you
> > are used to" and "there exists a new flow now that you should evaluate"
> but
> > I don't like that it may also convey "this flow is going to be
> deprecated"
> > which I don't think is true.
> >
> > Whatever we call it, I think its important to signal that Platform
> workflow
> > is for supporting "mucking with platform internals" not for "single
> > platform dev".  Single platform dev can be done using CLI just as easily.
> >
> > Should we create a wiki/doc which explains the flow and lists the
> > pros/cons?
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 9:20 AM, Ian Clelland <iclelland@google.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Legacy, though, sounds like it's something that we're actively moving
> > away
> > > from; something that we support only grudgingly, and which we might
> > > deprecate at the drop of a hat.
> > > The platform-only workflow supports legitimate use-cases which CLI
> > probably
> > > will never cover -- things like embedding a cordova web view inside of
> a
> > > larger platform-native project.
> > >
> > > The major difference I see with CLI is that it encourages the "Your
> > cordova
> > > web view *IS* your application" mindset. (And if that's true, then why
> > > wouldn't you aim for cross-platform development?) The pre-CLI workflow
> is
> > > still the way to build all other sorts of applications.
> > >
> > > Ian
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 11:30 PM, purplecabbage <
> purplecabbage@gmail.com
> > > >wrote:
> > >
> > > > I like merge-flow and legacy-flow
> > > >
> > > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > >
> > > > > On Oct 18, 2013, at 6:59 PM, Carlos Santana <csantana23@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Cross Platform -> use Merge Flow
> > > > >
> > > > > Single Platform -> use Legacy Flow
> > > > >
> > > > > Using "Multi Platform or Cross Platform" is also fine
> > > > >
> > > > > Using "Flow or Mode" is also fine
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >> On Friday, October 18, 2013, Brian LeRoux wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Ya, to me the difference is that one workflow embraces the native
> > > > platform
> > > > >> and tooling (plugman and bin/scripts) while the other focuses
on
> > > > building a
> > > > >> web project (cli/merges/etc).
> > > > >>
> > > > >> As a dev, if I'm ONLY worried about one platform (like a Cordova
> > > > >> implementor or many of our community folk) then bin/scripts
> > suffices.
> > > As
> > > > >> soon as I'm concerned with more than one platform the CLI
> workflows
> > > kick
> > > > >> in. That was the use case anyhow.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 3:21 PM, Steven Gill <
> > stevengill97@gmail.com>
> > > > >> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> Brian suggested Project Development (CLI workflow) vs Platform
> > > > >> Development
> > > > >>> (bin/scripts)
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Steven Gill <
> > stevengill97@gmail.com
> > > >
> > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>> We need more suggestions!
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Anis suggested picking to arbitrary names that don't
reflect the
> > > > >>> workflows
> > > > >>>> but would be easy to refer to.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Michal Mocny <
> > mmocny@chromium.org
> > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>> I use the IDE with the CLI and hope to make it better.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> In my mind, the old way is for making platform modifications,
> and
> > > the
> > > > >>> new
> > > > >>>>> way threads platforms/ as a build artifact.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> If you must control the platform code, you sacrifice
easy
> > upgrades
> > > > and
> > > > >>>>> ease
> > > > >>>>> of multi-platform development, but gain control.
> > > > >>>>> If you want to use the CLI, you lose the ability
to make
> > > > modifications
> > > > >>> to
> > > > >>>>> directly platform code without worrying about the
implications.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> -Michal
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Steven Gill <
> > > stevengill97@gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > >>>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> I like that better.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> I know that both methods use the command line,
but the
> > cordova-cli
> > > > >> has
> > > > >>>>> cli
> > > > >>>>>> in its name! We call the tool the cordova-cli
so it might be
> > more
> > > > >>>>> confusing
> > > > >>>>>> going away from that and calling it anything
else. Not saying
> we
> > > > >>>>> shouldn't
> > > > >>>>>> be open to a name change though just because
we called it X
> > since
> > > > >> its
> > > > >>>>>> inception (or am I saying that? :P).
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> When we write the docs about the other workflow
(bin/create,
> > > > >> plugman),
> > > > >>>>>> maybe making the IDE an integral part of it would
make it make
> > > more
> > > > >>>>> sense
> > > > >>>>>> calling that workflow IDE. Just a thought.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 12:09 PM, Jesse <
> > purplecabbage@gmail.com
> > > >
> > > > >>>>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> IDE or cordova-cli ??
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> @purplecabbage
> > > > >>>>>>> risingj.com
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 12:02 PM, Steven
Gill <
> > > > >>> stevengill97@gmail.com
> > > > >>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> I think SinplePlatform vs MultiPlatform
is misleading
> because
> > > > >> you
> > > > >>>>> can
> > > > >>>>>> use
> > > > >>>>>>>> the CLI to do single platform development.
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 11:51 AM, Jesse
<
> > > > >> purplecabbage@gmail.com>
> > > > >>>>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> SinglePlatform vs MultiPlatform makes
the most sense to me.
> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>>> SinglePlatform = Focus on a single
platform, and use
> plugman
> > > > >> and
> > > > >>>>> the
> > > > >>>>>>>>> platform scripts directly. Useful
when you only have that
> > > > >>>>> particular
> > > > >>>>>>>> device
> > > > >>>>>>>>> to test on, or only have access to
that device's
> marketplace.
> > > > >>>>> Also
> > > > >>>>>>>> useful
> > > > >>>>>>>>> for platform developers who are focused
primarily on the
> > > > >> native
> > > > >>>>> code.
> > > > >>>>>>>>> ( aka DivideAndConquer )
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Carlos Santana
> > > > > <csantana23@gmail.com>
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

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