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From Braden Shepherdson <bra...@chromium.org>
Subject Re: config.xml discussion, we need to talk
Date Mon, 21 Oct 2013 15:34:02 GMT
Whoops, forgot my citation:

[1] http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/magic-story.html


On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 11:33 AM, Braden Shepherdson <braden@chromium.org>wrote:

> "Less Magic" (bin/create, Plugman) and "More Magic" (CLI).[1]
>
> Mike Billau's suggestions look decent to me. How about "classic" instead
> of "legacy"? Removes the "it sucks and will die someday" connotation, since
> that's not true.
>
> Braden
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 11:25 AM, Mike Billau <mike.billau@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Lets make the name as confusing as possible, to live up to our history
>> (callback, phonegap, cordova.) ;)
>>
>> Personally I think that the names should try to describe the difference
>> between the workflows instead of trying to prescribe some type of usage,
>> since there are unknown and developing use cases.
>>
>> To me the main difference between the workflows is that with the CLI,
>> things get merged for you automatically, so I'm in favor of something like
>> "CLI/Merges Workflow" and "Non-CLI/Legacy Workflow", and in the very first
>> sentence of "Non-CLI/Legacy" we say "It's called "Legacy" because it was
>> the pre-3.0 worfklow, not because it is no longer supported."
>>
>> Michal, we created an item to track the doc changes:
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CB-5122  I think the bulk of the
>> workflow discussion can fit into the "Development Paths" section in the
>> main Overview Guide. I'll get started but will continue to monitor this
>> thread.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 10:01 AM, Michal Mocny <mmocny@chromium.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > (Okay, this thread at high risk of bikeshedding, just going to mention
>> that
>> > ;)  But I do think it would be great to settle once and for all.
>> >
>> > I like the distinction Steven/Brian are making: Project flow vs Platform
>> > flow.  I'm not sure that those names are immediately 100% clear (I'll
>> > ponder over it) but I like the focus points.
>> >
>> > I think Ian nails the description:  "CLI encourages the "Your cordova
>> web
>> > view *IS* your application" mindset"
>> >
>> > I don't have a big preference one way or the other regarding attaching
>> the
>> > word "legacy" to the Platform Flow.  I like that it conveys: "the flow
>> you
>> > are used to" and "there exists a new flow now that you should evaluate"
>> but
>> > I don't like that it may also convey "this flow is going to be
>> deprecated"
>> > which I don't think is true.
>> >
>> > Whatever we call it, I think its important to signal that Platform
>> workflow
>> > is for supporting "mucking with platform internals" not for "single
>> > platform dev".  Single platform dev can be done using CLI just as
>> easily.
>> >
>> > Should we create a wiki/doc which explains the flow and lists the
>> > pros/cons?
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 9:20 AM, Ian Clelland <iclelland@google.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > Legacy, though, sounds like it's something that we're actively moving
>> > away
>> > > from; something that we support only grudgingly, and which we might
>> > > deprecate at the drop of a hat.
>> > > The platform-only workflow supports legitimate use-cases which CLI
>> > probably
>> > > will never cover -- things like embedding a cordova web view inside
>> of a
>> > > larger platform-native project.
>> > >
>> > > The major difference I see with CLI is that it encourages the "Your
>> > cordova
>> > > web view *IS* your application" mindset. (And if that's true, then why
>> > > wouldn't you aim for cross-platform development?) The pre-CLI
>> workflow is
>> > > still the way to build all other sorts of applications.
>> > >
>> > > Ian
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 11:30 PM, purplecabbage <
>> purplecabbage@gmail.com
>> > > >wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > I like merge-flow and legacy-flow
>> > > >
>> > > > Sent from my iPhone
>> > > >
>> > > > > On Oct 18, 2013, at 6:59 PM, Carlos Santana <csantana23@gmail.com
>> >
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Cross Platform -> use Merge Flow
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Single Platform -> use Legacy Flow
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Using "Multi Platform or Cross Platform" is also fine
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Using "Flow or Mode" is also fine
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >> On Friday, October 18, 2013, Brian LeRoux wrote:
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> Ya, to me the difference is that one workflow embraces the
native
>> > > > platform
>> > > > >> and tooling (plugman and bin/scripts) while the other focuses
on
>> > > > building a
>> > > > >> web project (cli/merges/etc).
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> As a dev, if I'm ONLY worried about one platform (like a
Cordova
>> > > > >> implementor or many of our community folk) then bin/scripts
>> > suffices.
>> > > As
>> > > > >> soon as I'm concerned with more than one platform the CLI
>> workflows
>> > > kick
>> > > > >> in. That was the use case anyhow.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 3:21 PM, Steven Gill <
>> > stevengill97@gmail.com>
>> > > > >> wrote:
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>> Brian suggested Project Development (CLI workflow) vs
Platform
>> > > > >> Development
>> > > > >>> (bin/scripts)
>> > > > >>>
>> > > > >>>
>> > > > >>> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Steven Gill <
>> > stevengill97@gmail.com
>> > > >
>> > > > >>> wrote:
>> > > > >>>
>> > > > >>>> We need more suggestions!
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>>> Anis suggested picking to arbitrary names that don't
reflect
>> the
>> > > > >>> workflows
>> > > > >>>> but would be easy to refer to.
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>>> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Michal Mocny <
>> > mmocny@chromium.org
>> > > > >>>> wrote:
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>>>> I use the IDE with the CLI and hope to make it
better.
>> > > > >>>>>
>> > > > >>>>> In my mind, the old way is for making platform
modifications,
>> and
>> > > the
>> > > > >>> new
>> > > > >>>>> way threads platforms/ as a build artifact.
>> > > > >>>>>
>> > > > >>>>> If you must control the platform code, you sacrifice
easy
>> > upgrades
>> > > > and
>> > > > >>>>> ease
>> > > > >>>>> of multi-platform development, but gain control.
>> > > > >>>>> If you want to use the CLI, you lose the ability
to make
>> > > > modifications
>> > > > >>> to
>> > > > >>>>> directly platform code without worrying about
the
>> implications.
>> > > > >>>>>
>> > > > >>>>> -Michal
>> > > > >>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>
>> > > > >>>>> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Steven Gill
<
>> > > stevengill97@gmail.com
>> > > > >
>> > > > >>>>> wrote:
>> > > > >>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>> I like that better.
>> > > > >>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>> I know that both methods use the command
line, but the
>> > cordova-cli
>> > > > >> has
>> > > > >>>>> cli
>> > > > >>>>>> in its name! We call the tool the cordova-cli
so it might be
>> > more
>> > > > >>>>> confusing
>> > > > >>>>>> going away from that and calling it anything
else. Not
>> saying we
>> > > > >>>>> shouldn't
>> > > > >>>>>> be open to a name change though just because
we called it X
>> > since
>> > > > >> its
>> > > > >>>>>> inception (or am I saying that? :P).
>> > > > >>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>> When we write the docs about the other workflow
(bin/create,
>> > > > >> plugman),
>> > > > >>>>>> maybe making the IDE an integral part of
it would make it
>> make
>> > > more
>> > > > >>>>> sense
>> > > > >>>>>> calling that workflow IDE. Just a thought.
>> > > > >>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 12:09 PM, Jesse
<
>> > purplecabbage@gmail.com
>> > > >
>> > > > >>>>>> wrote:
>> > > > >>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>> IDE or cordova-cli ??
>> > > > >>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>> @purplecabbage
>> > > > >>>>>>> risingj.com
>> > > > >>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 12:02 PM, Steven
Gill <
>> > > > >>> stevengill97@gmail.com
>> > > > >>>>>>>> wrote:
>> > > > >>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>> I think SinplePlatform vs MultiPlatform
is misleading
>> because
>> > > > >> you
>> > > > >>>>> can
>> > > > >>>>>> use
>> > > > >>>>>>>> the CLI to do single platform development.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 11:51 AM,
Jesse <
>> > > > >> purplecabbage@gmail.com>
>> > > > >>>>>> wrote:
>> > > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>> SinglePlatform vs MultiPlatform
makes the most sense to
>> me.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>> SinglePlatform = Focus on a single
platform, and use
>> plugman
>> > > > >> and
>> > > > >>>>> the
>> > > > >>>>>>>>> platform scripts directly. Useful
when you only have that
>> > > > >>>>> particular
>> > > > >>>>>>>> device
>> > > > >>>>>>>>> to test on, or only have access
to that device's
>> marketplace.
>> > > > >>>>> Also
>> > > > >>>>>>>> useful
>> > > > >>>>>>>>> for platform developers who are
focused primarily on the
>> > > > >> native
>> > > > >>>>> code.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>> ( aka DivideAndConquer )
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > --
>> > > > > Carlos Santana
>> > > > > <csantana23@gmail.com>
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>
>

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