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From Jesse <purplecabb...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: config.xml discussion, we need to talk
Date Fri, 18 Oct 2013 18:51:39 GMT
SinglePlatform vs MultiPlatform makes the most sense to me.

SinglePlatform = Focus on a single platform, and use plugman and the
platform scripts directly. Useful when you only have that particular device
to test on, or only have access to that device's marketplace.  Also useful
for platform developers who are focused primarily on the native code.
( aka DivideAndConquer )

MultiPlatform = Build your app for a bunch of platforms at the same time.
Great for when you know you are targeting multiple stores/devices.
( aka DucksInARow or MagicBullet )

I tend to lean towards the SinglePlatform, so maybe someone else could
enumerate more Multi benefits.


@purplecabbage
risingj.com


On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 11:28 AM, Steven Gill <stevengill97@gmail.com>wrote:

> John: If you decided to take a stab a blogging about it, please think about
> blogging on the cordova site! We can all review it before publishing it
> too!
>
> Erik: that video was awesome! Let me know when Gorkem does a release and I
> can post it on the cordova twitter feed.
>
> Michal: Could just be CLI vs Plugman workflow
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 10:21 AM, Michal Mocny <mmocny@chromium.org>
> wrote:
>
> > I wonder if we should not work out better names for the two workflows.
> >  Both are kinda command-line-based so saying "CLI" vs "old" is confusing.
> >  As is saying "the bin/ script flow" confusing.  Not sure if "multi" vs
> > "single" platform flow is any better, since you can use both flows for
> one
> > or more platforms.
> >
> > Anyway, if we have more obvious/catchy names, then we can be more clear
> in
> > our communications which flow our answers are relevant to.  i.e., "use
> > plugman to ... (only for ___ flow)".  i.e., "Be carefully when editing in
> > IDE ... (only for ___ flow)".
> >
> > -Michal
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 1:14 PM, Anis KADRI <anis.kadri@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Erik that's great! Where can we download it?
> > > On Oct 18, 2013 8:01 AM, "Andrew Grieve" <agrieve@chromium.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Awesome video!!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 3:43 AM, Erik Jan de Wit <edewit@redhat.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On the topic of IDE support my collage Gorkem has made a nice
> wizard
> > in
> > > > > eclipse that mimics the CLI have a look at this video
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUyUUtmTYok
> > > > >
> > > > > On 18 Oct,2013, at 4:29 , Maxime LUCE <Maxime@somatic.fr> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Great Bryan
> > > > > > Totally agree !!!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cordialement.
> > > > > > -------------------------------
> > > > > > Maxime LUCE - Somatic
> > > > > > maxime.luce@somatic.fr
> > > > > > 06 28 60 72 34
> > > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > > De : Brian LeRoux<mailto:b@brian.io>
> > > > > > Envoyé : 18/10/2013 01:48
> > > > > > À : dev@cordova.apache.org<mailto:dev@cordova.apache.org>
> > > > > > Objet : Re: config.xml discussion, we need to talk
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't really appreciate comments that we don't talk to our
> users,
> > > or
> > > > > build apps in anger. Neither of those assertions are true. The
> > origins
> > > of
> > > > > these initiatives are based on both community feedback, and direct
> > > > > experience.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Keeping your focus on just pure platform side of a project is
> fine,
> > > of
> > > > > course, since the CLI delegates to the platform. This was also a
> > > > deliberate
> > > > > learning from MANY attempts at an architecture that satisfies both
> > > > > approaches. It separates the concerns and respects the platform
> will
> > be
> > > > > canonical for the common workflows supported. This is a very real
> > > example
> > > > > of Conway's Law btw. [1]
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anyhow. Deep breath! Software has bugs, people will report them,
> > and
> > > > > we'll continue to improve. This is a very large group with a very
> > > diverse
> > > > > community that spans regular old hackers to the humble web
> designers.
> > > We
> > > > > need to respect that, and maybe be a little more compassionate to
> > each
> > > > > other too. All software is fucked up, and at the end of the day,
it
> > is
> > > > our
> > > > > perpetual job to make it a little less fucked up.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway's_law
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Inline image 1]
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Tommy Williams <
> > tommy@devgeeks.org
> > > > > <mailto:tommy@devgeeks.org>> wrote:
> > > > > > Late to the party due to timezone fun, but I just want to chime
> in
> > in
> > > > > > support of the CLI.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As a dev working on an actual nontrivial "real world" app, I
> would
> > > like
> > > > > to
> > > > > > let it be known that we (SpiderOak) have been heavy drinkers
of
> the
> > > CLI
> > > > > > Kool-Aid since its infancy.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We have even managed to get to the point where ./platforms/**/*
> is
> > > > just a
> > > > > > build artefact (mostly by using hooks and tying the whole thing
> > > > together
> > > > > > with Grunt).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We have a fast and fairly complex app (both many core plugins
as
> > well
> > > > > and a
> > > > > > few custom/third party ones), that even includes the ability
to
> > white
> > > > > label
> > > > > > it with relative ease.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I feel pretty strongly in favour of the CLI and strongly advocate
> > its
> > > > use
> > > > > > when asked in the #phonegap IRC channel.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Just my opinion, but thought it was important to add to the
> > > discussion.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - tommy / devgeeks
> > > > > > On 18 Oct 2013 04:44, "Anis KADRI" <anis.kadri@gmail.com<mailto:
> > > > > anis.kadri@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> Sweet. So I think we all agree (expect Joe perhaps?) that
both
> > > > > >> approaches should be supported :-)
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 10:31 AM, Carlos Santana <
> > > > csantana23@gmail.com
> > > > > <mailto:csantana23@gmail.com>>
> > > > > >> wrote:
> > > > > >>> I meant in addition of ".cordova/lib" also allow also
to do
> > > something
> > > > > >> like
> > > > > >>> "cordova platform add ios
> > --path="./cordova_components/cordova-ios"
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 1:28 PM, Carlos Santana <
> > > > csantana23@gmail.com
> > > > > <mailto:csantana23@gmail.com>
> > > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>> ++1  "to install from a given directory instead
of
> > .cordova/libs."
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Viras <
> > > > viras@users.sourceforge.net
> > > > > <mailto:viras@users.sourceforge.net>
> > > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>> This might be true - it took me quite some time
to figure out
> > how
> > > > the
> > > > > >> CLI
> > > > > >>>>> actually works - despite also having to fix
one or two bugs
> for
> > > the
> > > > > WPX
> > > > > >>>>> implementation of the CLI code (as well as the
Windows 8 CLI
> > > code).
> > > > > But
> > > > > >>>>> still I would hate to see the CLI go, since
I think once you
> > are
> > > > used
> > > > > >> to
> > > > > >>>>> it, it saves you quite a lot of time (I still
have those old
> > > > > documents
> > > > > >>>>> which guide me through the setup of the IDE
projects for the
> > > > > different
> > > > > >>>>> platforms - which is now mostly obsolete).
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> So I guess supporting both methods is the way
to go... :)
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> Best,
> > > > > >>>>> Wolfgang
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> Am 2013-10-17 16:13, schrieb Michal Mocny:
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> Thanks so much for chiming in, I'm very happy
to see that
> > you've
> > > > > >> figured
> > > > > >>>>>> out how to leverage the benefits and avoid
the drawbacks of
> > the
> > > > new
> > > > > >>>>>> workflow, and that it has led to increased
productivity for
> > you.
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> I do think that perhaps it is still too
difficult for every
> > > > > developer
> > > > > >> to
> > > > > >>>>>> learn what you already have.
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> -Michal
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 12:13 AM, Viras
<
> > > > > viras@users.sourceforge.net<mailto:viras@users.sourceforge.net>>
> > > > > >>>>>> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> my view on this discussion:
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>> I've used the CLI to release the latest
version of GOFG
> > Sports
> > > > > >> Computer
> > > > > >>>>>>> for Windows Phone. The support for the
"merges" directory
> is
> > a
> > > > > >> fantastic
> > > > > >>>>>>> feature which allows me to focus on
the javascript code
> using
> > > > e.g.
> > > > > >> the
> > > > > >>>>>>> NetBeans IDE - I can finally handle
all my platform
> specific
> > > code
> > > > > >> from
> > > > > >>>>>>> JavaScript in one consistent directory
structure - which is
> > > what
> > > > > >> Cordova
> > > > > >>>>>>> should be about.
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>> In addition the CLI forces you to write
clean code (not
> > > implying
> > > > > that
> > > > > >>>>>>> the
> > > > > >>>>>>> other method forces to write messy code).
If you need
> > something
> > > > > >> native
> > > > > >>>>>>> write a clean plugin for it (which also
makes the code
> > > reusable)
> > > > -
> > > > > no
> > > > > >>>>>>> need
> > > > > >>>>>>> to mess around in the native projects
code - this also
> makes
> > > > > >> upgrading
> > > > > >>>>>>> cordova much easier.
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>> Once I've done the Windows Phone version
I've simply added
> > > > Android
> > > > > >> as a
> > > > > >>>>>>> platform, build it and I was done -
no need for fiddling
> > around
> > > > > with
> > > > > >>>>>>> SDK /
> > > > > >>>>>>> IDE setup etc (besides actually installing
it). So CLI is
> my
> > > > > favorite
> > > > > >>>>>>> way
> > > > > >>>>>>> to develop now - and it is far more
powerful than the old
> > > > approach
> > > > > >> (in
> > > > > >>>>>>> my
> > > > > >>>>>>> opinion) - since it saves you from fiddling
around with
> > project
> > > > > >>>>>>> settings,
> > > > > >>>>>>> etc. when you do a multi-platform release.
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>> Oh yes - and GOFG SC uses two custom
plugins, 5 official
> > > plugins
> > > > > and
> > > > > >>>>>>> cordova 3.0 - so it is a bit beyond
the "Hello World"
> > > > > application....
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>> And I do not agree that it isn't possible
to work with the
> > > native
> > > > > >> IDEs
> > > > > >>>>>>> with their own projects - this is simply
wrong since you
> can
> > > > always
> > > > > >> go
> > > > > >>>>>>> to
> > > > > >>>>>>> the "platforms" directory and open the
platform-projects
> > using
> > > > > their
> > > > > >>>>>>> native
> > > > > >>>>>>> IDE from there (I've done this myself
for e.g. plugin
> > > > development).
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>> Still I agree that both versions should
be supported - but
> > > don't
> > > > > make
> > > > > >>>>>>> the
> > > > > >>>>>>> assumption that the CLI is for "n00bs"
only!
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>> Best,
> > > > > >>>>>>> Wolfgang
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>> Am 2013-10-16 23:11, schrieb Joe Bowser:
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 1:37 PM, Michal
Mocny <
> > > > mmocny@chromium.org
> > > > > <mailto:mmocny@chromium.org>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>> Anis: Totally agrees, but its important
to highlight that
> > both
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> directions
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> for that arguments hold.  We've
done our best to support
> > bin/
> > > > > >> scripts
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> post
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> 3.0, yet blanket statements
like "CLI should not be used
> > with
> > > > > >> IDE", or
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> "CLI
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> sucks unless you just doing
something trivial" are being
> > > thrown
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> around,
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> which are harmful in my opinion,
and I don't think its
> fair
> > > > that
> > > > > >> some
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> of
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> us
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> are promoting that message to
users.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> I don't think we're communicating
with our users at all,
> > so I
> > > > > >> don't
> > > > > >>>>>>>> see how this could be communicated.
 When users
> communicate
> > > > their
> > > > > >>>>>>>> frustrations, it's usually something
like this
> > > > > >>>>>>>> (
> http://www.infil00p.org/****config-xml-changes-for-ios-**<
> > > > > >> http://www.infil00p.org/**config-xml-changes-for-ios-**>
> > > > > >>>>>>>> and-android/#comment-10731<htt**p://
> > > www.infil00p.org/config-**<
> > > > > http://www.infil00p.org/config-**>
> > > > > >>>>>>>> xml-changes-for-ios-and-**android/#comment-10731<
> > > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.infil00p.org/config-xml-changes-for-ios-and-android/#comment-10731
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>> )
> > > > > >>>>>>>> and this
> > > > > >>>>>>>> (
> > > http://www.infil00p.org/****introducing-cordova-3-0-0-for-****
> > > > <
> > > > > >> http://www.infil00p.org/**introducing-cordova-3-0-0-for-**>
> > > > > >>>>>>>> android/#comment-10694<http://**
> > > www.infil00p.org/introducing-**
> > > > <
> > > > > http://www.infil00p.org/introducing-**>
> > > > > >>>>>>>> cordova-3-0-0-for-android/#**comment-10694<
> > > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.infil00p.org/introducing-cordova-3-0-0-for-android/#comment-10694
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>> ).
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>> CLI works well for me, and while
its not perfect, I strive
> > to
> > > > > learn
> > > > > >>>>>>>> its
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> limitations and make it better,
not condemn it.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>> I avoid it because it's not developed
for me, or
> developers
> > > like
> > > > > me
> > > > > >>>>>>>> who like to see a big pile of output
when things fail.  I
> > > > avoided
> > > > > >>>>>>>> having any part in its development
because I thought it
> was
> > > the
> > > > > >> wrong
> > > > > >>>>>>>> way to do things.  I assumed that
the majority of users
> > > actually
> > > > > >>>>>>>> wanted this and that I should do
my best to work around
> > this,
> > > > but
> > > > > >> with
> > > > > >>>>>>>> the backlash that we're getting,
such as the blog posts
> and
> > > some
> > > > > >>>>>>>> comments on the Google Groups, it
seems that this is a
> > feature
> > > > > very
> > > > > >>>>>>>> few people actually wanted.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>> As far as the CordovaWebView use
case, I actually have
> never
> > > > tried
> > > > > >>>>>>>> that.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> Has anyone bothered to make
sure it works well post-3.0,
> or
> > > > does
> > > > > >> Joe
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> have
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> a point that we missed addressing
this?
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>> We have JUnit unit tests in the
Android repository to make
> > > sure
> > > > > that
> > > > > >>>>>>>> this still works.  However, I would
like to see this test
> > case
> > > > > >>>>>>>> revisited since it may be more appropriate
to have
> > > > CordovaActivity
> > > > > >> be
> > > > > >>>>>>>> inherited instead of CordovaInterface,
or for both to be
> > > > > supported.
> > > > > >>>>>>>> This is so that we can make more
hybrid applications and
> > deal
> > > > with
> > > > > >> the
> > > > > >>>>>>>> fact that we're so brutally non-complaint
with Android UI
> > > > > guidelines
> > > > > >>>>>>>> instead of just ignoring it.  I'll
probably bring this up
> > and
> > > > > >> present
> > > > > >>>>>>>> more source code when it's ready
to explain why we need
> this
> > > > > feature
> > > > > >>>>>>>> in the next couple of weeks, and
why it's important to
> > respect
> > > > the
> > > > > >>>>>>>> platform, even when the platform
doesn't respect the web.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>> --
> > > > > >>>>>>> GOFG - Get On Fat Guy
> > > > > >>>>>>> http://www.gofg.at/ - powered by Cordova
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> --
> > > > > >>>>> GOFG - Get On Fat Guy
> > > > > >>>>> http://www.gofg.at/ - powered by Cordova
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> --
> > > > > >>>> Carlos Santana
> > > > > >>>> <csantana23@gmail.com<mailto:csantana23@gmail.com>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> --
> > > > > >>> Carlos Santana
> > > > > >>> <csantana23@gmail.com<mailto:csantana23@gmail.com>>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

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