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From Brian LeRoux...@brian.io>
Subject Re: config.xml discussion, we need to talk
Date Mon, 21 Oct 2013 17:35:48 GMT
I think we need to be explicit, not talk about legacy or magic. I'd like to
propose:

Native Platform Dev -- Build Cordova apps on the metal. No helpers for
moving across platforms.
Web Project Dev -- Build web first projects that (mostly) treats native
projects as build artifacts.



On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 8:34 AM, Braden Shepherdson <braden@chromium.org>wrote:

> Whoops, forgot my citation:
>
> [1] http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/magic-story.html
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 11:33 AM, Braden Shepherdson <braden@chromium.org
> >wrote:
>
> > "Less Magic" (bin/create, Plugman) and "More Magic" (CLI).[1]
> >
> > Mike Billau's suggestions look decent to me. How about "classic" instead
> > of "legacy"? Removes the "it sucks and will die someday" connotation,
> since
> > that's not true.
> >
> > Braden
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 11:25 AM, Mike Billau <mike.billau@gmail.com
> >wrote:
> >
> >> Lets make the name as confusing as possible, to live up to our history
> >> (callback, phonegap, cordova.) ;)
> >>
> >> Personally I think that the names should try to describe the difference
> >> between the workflows instead of trying to prescribe some type of usage,
> >> since there are unknown and developing use cases.
> >>
> >> To me the main difference between the workflows is that with the CLI,
> >> things get merged for you automatically, so I'm in favor of something
> like
> >> "CLI/Merges Workflow" and "Non-CLI/Legacy Workflow", and in the very
> first
> >> sentence of "Non-CLI/Legacy" we say "It's called "Legacy" because it was
> >> the pre-3.0 worfklow, not because it is no longer supported."
> >>
> >> Michal, we created an item to track the doc changes:
> >> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CB-5122  I think the bulk of the
> >> workflow discussion can fit into the "Development Paths" section in the
> >> main Overview Guide. I'll get started but will continue to monitor this
> >> thread.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 10:01 AM, Michal Mocny <mmocny@chromium.org>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > (Okay, this thread at high risk of bikeshedding, just going to mention
> >> that
> >> > ;)  But I do think it would be great to settle once and for all.
> >> >
> >> > I like the distinction Steven/Brian are making: Project flow vs
> Platform
> >> > flow.  I'm not sure that those names are immediately 100% clear (I'll
> >> > ponder over it) but I like the focus points.
> >> >
> >> > I think Ian nails the description:  "CLI encourages the "Your cordova
> >> web
> >> > view *IS* your application" mindset"
> >> >
> >> > I don't have a big preference one way or the other regarding attaching
> >> the
> >> > word "legacy" to the Platform Flow.  I like that it conveys: "the flow
> >> you
> >> > are used to" and "there exists a new flow now that you should
> evaluate"
> >> but
> >> > I don't like that it may also convey "this flow is going to be
> >> deprecated"
> >> > which I don't think is true.
> >> >
> >> > Whatever we call it, I think its important to signal that Platform
> >> workflow
> >> > is for supporting "mucking with platform internals" not for "single
> >> > platform dev".  Single platform dev can be done using CLI just as
> >> easily.
> >> >
> >> > Should we create a wiki/doc which explains the flow and lists the
> >> > pros/cons?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 9:20 AM, Ian Clelland <iclelland@google.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Legacy, though, sounds like it's something that we're actively
> moving
> >> > away
> >> > > from; something that we support only grudgingly, and which we might
> >> > > deprecate at the drop of a hat.
> >> > > The platform-only workflow supports legitimate use-cases which CLI
> >> > probably
> >> > > will never cover -- things like embedding a cordova web view inside
> >> of a
> >> > > larger platform-native project.
> >> > >
> >> > > The major difference I see with CLI is that it encourages the "Your
> >> > cordova
> >> > > web view *IS* your application" mindset. (And if that's true, then
> why
> >> > > wouldn't you aim for cross-platform development?) The pre-CLI
> >> workflow is
> >> > > still the way to build all other sorts of applications.
> >> > >
> >> > > Ian
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 11:30 PM, purplecabbage <
> >> purplecabbage@gmail.com
> >> > > >wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > > I like merge-flow and legacy-flow
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Sent from my iPhone
> >> > > >
> >> > > > > On Oct 18, 2013, at 6:59 PM, Carlos Santana <
> csantana23@gmail.com
> >> >
> >> > > > wrote:
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Cross Platform -> use Merge Flow
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Single Platform -> use Legacy Flow
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Using "Multi Platform or Cross Platform" is also fine
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Using "Flow or Mode" is also fine
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >> On Friday, October 18, 2013, Brian LeRoux wrote:
> >> > > > >>
> >> > > > >> Ya, to me the difference is that one workflow embraces
the
> native
> >> > > > platform
> >> > > > >> and tooling (plugman and bin/scripts) while the other
focuses
> on
> >> > > > building a
> >> > > > >> web project (cli/merges/etc).
> >> > > > >>
> >> > > > >> As a dev, if I'm ONLY worried about one platform (like
a
> Cordova
> >> > > > >> implementor or many of our community folk) then bin/scripts
> >> > suffices.
> >> > > As
> >> > > > >> soon as I'm concerned with more than one platform the
CLI
> >> workflows
> >> > > kick
> >> > > > >> in. That was the use case anyhow.
> >> > > > >>
> >> > > > >>
> >> > > > >> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 3:21 PM, Steven Gill <
> >> > stevengill97@gmail.com>
> >> > > > >> wrote:
> >> > > > >>
> >> > > > >>> Brian suggested Project Development (CLI workflow)
vs Platform
> >> > > > >> Development
> >> > > > >>> (bin/scripts)
> >> > > > >>>
> >> > > > >>>
> >> > > > >>> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Steven Gill <
> >> > stevengill97@gmail.com
> >> > > >
> >> > > > >>> wrote:
> >> > > > >>>
> >> > > > >>>> We need more suggestions!
> >> > > > >>>>
> >> > > > >>>> Anis suggested picking to arbitrary names that
don't reflect
> >> the
> >> > > > >>> workflows
> >> > > > >>>> but would be easy to refer to.
> >> > > > >>>>
> >> > > > >>>>
> >> > > > >>>>
> >> > > > >>>>
> >> > > > >>>> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Michal Mocny
<
> >> > mmocny@chromium.org
> >> > > > >>>> wrote:
> >> > > > >>>>
> >> > > > >>>>> I use the IDE with the CLI and hope to make
it better.
> >> > > > >>>>>
> >> > > > >>>>> In my mind, the old way is for making platform
> modifications,
> >> and
> >> > > the
> >> > > > >>> new
> >> > > > >>>>> way threads platforms/ as a build artifact.
> >> > > > >>>>>
> >> > > > >>>>> If you must control the platform code, you
sacrifice easy
> >> > upgrades
> >> > > > and
> >> > > > >>>>> ease
> >> > > > >>>>> of multi-platform development, but gain
control.
> >> > > > >>>>> If you want to use the CLI, you lose the
ability to make
> >> > > > modifications
> >> > > > >>> to
> >> > > > >>>>> directly platform code without worrying
about the
> >> implications.
> >> > > > >>>>>
> >> > > > >>>>> -Michal
> >> > > > >>>>>
> >> > > > >>>>>
> >> > > > >>>>> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Steven
Gill <
> >> > > stevengill97@gmail.com
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >>>>> wrote:
> >> > > > >>>>>
> >> > > > >>>>>> I like that better.
> >> > > > >>>>>>
> >> > > > >>>>>> I know that both methods use the command
line, but the
> >> > cordova-cli
> >> > > > >> has
> >> > > > >>>>> cli
> >> > > > >>>>>> in its name! We call the tool the cordova-cli
so it might
> be
> >> > more
> >> > > > >>>>> confusing
> >> > > > >>>>>> going away from that and calling it
anything else. Not
> >> saying we
> >> > > > >>>>> shouldn't
> >> > > > >>>>>> be open to a name change though just
because we called it X
> >> > since
> >> > > > >> its
> >> > > > >>>>>> inception (or am I saying that? :P).
> >> > > > >>>>>>
> >> > > > >>>>>> When we write the docs about the other
workflow
> (bin/create,
> >> > > > >> plugman),
> >> > > > >>>>>> maybe making the IDE an integral part
of it would make it
> >> make
> >> > > more
> >> > > > >>>>> sense
> >> > > > >>>>>> calling that workflow IDE. Just a thought.
> >> > > > >>>>>>
> >> > > > >>>>>>
> >> > > > >>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 12:09 PM,
Jesse <
> >> > purplecabbage@gmail.com
> >> > > >
> >> > > > >>>>>> wrote:
> >> > > > >>>>>>
> >> > > > >>>>>>> IDE or cordova-cli ??
> >> > > > >>>>>>>
> >> > > > >>>>>>> @purplecabbage
> >> > > > >>>>>>> risingj.com
> >> > > > >>>>>>>
> >> > > > >>>>>>>
> >> > > > >>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 12:02 PM,
Steven Gill <
> >> > > > >>> stevengill97@gmail.com
> >> > > > >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >> > > > >>>>>>>
> >> > > > >>>>>>>> I think SinplePlatform vs MultiPlatform
is misleading
> >> because
> >> > > > >> you
> >> > > > >>>>> can
> >> > > > >>>>>> use
> >> > > > >>>>>>>> the CLI to do single platform
development.
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>
> >> > > > >>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 11:51
AM, Jesse <
> >> > > > >> purplecabbage@gmail.com>
> >> > > > >>>>>> wrote:
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>> SinglePlatform vs MultiPlatform
makes the most sense to
> >> me.
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>> SinglePlatform = Focus on
a single platform, and use
> >> plugman
> >> > > > >> and
> >> > > > >>>>> the
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>> platform scripts directly.
Useful when you only have
> that
> >> > > > >>>>> particular
> >> > > > >>>>>>>> device
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>> to test on, or only have
access to that device's
> >> marketplace.
> >> > > > >>>>> Also
> >> > > > >>>>>>>> useful
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>> for platform developers
who are focused primarily on the
> >> > > > >> native
> >> > > > >>>>> code.
> >> > > > >>>>>>>>> ( aka DivideAndConquer )
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > --
> >> > > > > Carlos Santana
> >> > > > > <csantana23@gmail.com>
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
>

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