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From Brian LeRoux...@brian.io>
Subject Re: config.xml discussion, we need to talk
Date Fri, 18 Oct 2013 23:03:02 GMT
Ya, to me the difference is that one workflow embraces the native platform
and tooling (plugman and bin/scripts) while the other focuses on building a
web project (cli/merges/etc).

As a dev, if I'm ONLY worried about one platform (like a Cordova
implementor or many of our community folk) then bin/scripts suffices. As
soon as I'm concerned with more than one platform the CLI workflows kick
in. That was the use case anyhow.


On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 3:21 PM, Steven Gill <stevengill97@gmail.com> wrote:

> Brian suggested Project Development (CLI workflow) vs Platform Development
> (bin/scripts)
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Steven Gill <stevengill97@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > We need more suggestions!
> >
> > Anis suggested picking to arbitrary names that don't reflect the
> workflows
> > but would be easy to refer to.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Michal Mocny <mmocny@chromium.org
> >wrote:
> >
> >> I use the IDE with the CLI and hope to make it better.
> >>
> >> In my mind, the old way is for making platform modifications, and the
> new
> >> way threads platforms/ as a build artifact.
> >>
> >> If you must control the platform code, you sacrifice easy upgrades and
> >> ease
> >> of multi-platform development, but gain control.
> >> If you want to use the CLI, you lose the ability to make modifications
> to
> >> directly platform code without worrying about the implications.
> >>
> >> -Michal
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Steven Gill <stevengill97@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > I like that better.
> >> >
> >> > I know that both methods use the command line, but the cordova-cli has
> >> cli
> >> > in its name! We call the tool the cordova-cli so it might be more
> >> confusing
> >> > going away from that and calling it anything else. Not saying we
> >> shouldn't
> >> > be open to a name change though just because we called it X since its
> >> > inception (or am I saying that? :P).
> >> >
> >> > When we write the docs about the other workflow (bin/create, plugman),
> >> > maybe making the IDE an integral part of it would make it make more
> >> sense
> >> > calling that workflow IDE. Just a thought.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 12:09 PM, Jesse <purplecabbage@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > >  IDE or cordova-cli ??
> >> > >
> >> > > @purplecabbage
> >> > > risingj.com
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 12:02 PM, Steven Gill <
> stevengill97@gmail.com
> >> > > >wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > > I think SinplePlatform vs MultiPlatform is misleading because you
> >> can
> >> > use
> >> > > > the CLI to do single platform development.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 11:51 AM, Jesse <purplecabbage@gmail.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > > SinglePlatform vs MultiPlatform makes the most sense to me.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > SinglePlatform = Focus on a single platform, and use plugman and
> >> the
> >> > > > > platform scripts directly. Useful when you only have that
> >> particular
> >> > > > device
> >> > > > > to test on, or only have access to that device's marketplace.
> >>  Also
> >> > > > useful
> >> > > > > for platform developers who are focused primarily on the native
> >> code.
> >> > > > > ( aka DivideAndConquer )
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > MultiPlatform = Build your app for a bunch of platforms at the
> >> same
> >> > > time.
> >> > > > > Great for when you know you are targeting multiple
> stores/devices.
> >> > > > > ( aka DucksInARow or MagicBullet )
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > I tend to lean towards the SinglePlatform, so maybe someone else
> >> > could
> >> > > > > enumerate more Multi benefits.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > @purplecabbage
> >> > > > > risingj.com
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 11:28 AM, Steven Gill <
> >> > stevengill97@gmail.com
> >> > > > > >wrote:
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > > John: If you decided to take a stab a blogging about it,
> please
> >> > think
> >> > > > > about
> >> > > > > > blogging on the cordova site! We can all review it before
> >> > publishing
> >> > > it
> >> > > > > > too!
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Erik: that video was awesome! Let me know when Gorkem does a
> >> > release
> >> > > > and
> >> > > > > I
> >> > > > > > can post it on the cordova twitter feed.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Michal: Could just be CLI vs Plugman workflow
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 10:21 AM, Michal Mocny <
> >> > mmocny@chromium.org>
> >> > > > > > wrote:
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > I wonder if we should not work out better names for the two
> >> > > > workflows.
> >> > > > > > >  Both are kinda command-line-based so saying "CLI" vs "old"
> is
> >> > > > > confusing.
> >> > > > > > >  As is saying "the bin/ script flow" confusing.  Not sure if
> >> > > "multi"
> >> > > > vs
> >> > > > > > > "single" platform flow is any better, since you can use both
> >> > flows
> >> > > > for
> >> > > > > > one
> >> > > > > > > or more platforms.
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > Anyway, if we have more obvious/catchy names, then we can be
> >> more
> >> > > > clear
> >> > > > > > in
> >> > > > > > > our communications which flow our answers are relevant to.
> >>  i.e.,
> >> > > > "use
> >> > > > > > > plugman to ... (only for ___ flow)".  i.e., "Be carefully
> when
> >> > > > editing
> >> > > > > in
> >> > > > > > > IDE ... (only for ___ flow)".
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > -Michal
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 1:14 PM, Anis KADRI <
> >> > anis.kadri@gmail.com>
> >> > > > > > wrote:
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > Erik that's great! Where can we download it?
> >> > > > > > > > On Oct 18, 2013 8:01 AM, "Andrew Grieve" <
> >> agrieve@chromium.org
> >> > >
> >> > > > > wrote:
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > Awesome video!!
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 3:43 AM, Erik Jan de Wit <
> >> > > > > edewit@redhat.com>
> >> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > On the topic of IDE support my collage Gorkem has
> made a
> >> > nice
> >> > > > > > wizard
> >> > > > > > > in
> >> > > > > > > > > > eclipse that mimics the CLI have a look at this video
> >> > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUyUUtmTYok
> >> > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > On 18 Oct,2013, at 4:29 , Maxime LUCE <
> >> Maxime@somatic.fr>
> >> > > > wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > Great Bryan
> >> > > > > > > > > > > Totally agree !!!
> >> > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > Cordialement.
> >> > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------
> >> > > > > > > > > > > Maxime LUCE - Somatic
> >> > > > > > > > > > > maxime.luce@somatic.fr
> >> > > > > > > > > > > 06 28 60 72 34
> >> > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________
> >> > > > > > > > > > > De : Brian LeRoux<mailto:b@brian.io>
> >> > > > > > > > > > > Envoyé : 18/10/2013 01:48
> >> > > > > > > > > > > À : dev@cordova.apache.org<mailto:
> >> dev@cordova.apache.org
> >> > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > Objet : Re: config.xml discussion, we need to talk
> >> > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > I don't really appreciate comments that we don't
> talk
> >> to
> >> > > our
> >> > > > > > users,
> >> > > > > > > > or
> >> > > > > > > > > > build apps in anger. Neither of those assertions are
> >> true.
> >> > > The
> >> > > > > > > origins
> >> > > > > > > > of
> >> > > > > > > > > > these initiatives are based on both community
> feedback,
> >> and
> >> > > > > direct
> >> > > > > > > > > > experience.
> >> > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > Keeping your focus on just pure platform side of a
> >> > project
> >> > > is
> >> > > > > > fine,
> >> > > > > > > > of
> >> > > > > > > > > > course, since the CLI delegates to the platform. This
> >> was
> >> > > also
> >> > > > a
> >> > > > > > > > > deliberate
> >> > > > > > > > > > learning from MANY attempts at an architecture that
> >> > satisfies
> >> > > > > both
> >> > > > > > > > > > approaches. It separates the concerns and respects the
> >> > > platform
> >> > > > > > will
> >> > > > > > > be
> >> > > > > > > > > > canonical for the common workflows supported. This is
> a
> >> > very
> >> > > > real
> >> > > > > > > > example
> >> > > > > > > > > > of Conway's Law btw. [1]
> >> > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > Anyhow. Deep breath! Software has bugs, people will
> >> > report
> >> > > > > them,
> >> > > > > > > and
> >> > > > > > > > > > we'll continue to improve. This is a very large group
> >> with
> >> > a
> >> > > > very
> >> > > > > > > > diverse
> >> > > > > > > > > > community that spans regular old hackers to the humble
> >> web
> >> > > > > > designers.
> >> > > > > > > > We
> >> > > > > > > > > > need to respect that, and maybe be a little more
> >> > > compassionate
> >> > > > to
> >> > > > > > > each
> >> > > > > > > > > > other too. All software is fucked up, and at the end
> of
> >> the
> >> > > > day,
> >> > > > > it
> >> > > > > > > is
> >> > > > > > > > > our
> >> > > > > > > > > > perpetual job to make it a little less fucked up.
> >> > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway's_law
> >> > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > [Inline image 1]
> >> > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Tommy Williams <
> >> > > > > > > tommy@devgeeks.org
> >> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:tommy@devgeeks.org>> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > > > Late to the party due to timezone fun, but I just
> >> want to
> >> > > > chime
> >> > > > > > in
> >> > > > > > > in
> >> > > > > > > > > > > support of the CLI.
> >> > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > As a dev working on an actual nontrivial "real
> world"
> >> > app,
> >> > > I
> >> > > > > > would
> >> > > > > > > > like
> >> > > > > > > > > > to
> >> > > > > > > > > > > let it be known that we (SpiderOak) have been heavy
> >> > > drinkers
> >> > > > of
> >> > > > > > the
> >> > > > > > > > CLI
> >> > > > > > > > > > > Kool-Aid since its infancy.
> >> > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > We have even managed to get to the point where
> >> > > > ./platforms/**/*
> >> > > > > > is
> >> > > > > > > > > just a
> >> > > > > > > > > > > build artefact (mostly by using hooks and tying the
> >> whole
> >> > > > thing
> >> > > > > > > > > together
> >> > > > > > > > > > > with Grunt).
> >> > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > We have a fast and fairly complex app (both many
> core
> >> > > plugins
> >> > > > > as
> >> > > > > > > well
> >> > > > > > > > > > and a
> >> > > > > > > > > > > few custom/third party ones), that even includes the
> >> > > ability
> >> > > > to
> >> > > > > > > white
> >> > > > > > > > > > label
> >> > > > > > > > > > > it with relative ease.
> >> > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > I feel pretty strongly in favour of the CLI and
> >> strongly
> >> > > > > advocate
> >> > > > > > > its
> >> > > > > > > > > use
> >> > > > > > > > > > > when asked in the #phonegap IRC channel.
> >> > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > Just my opinion, but thought it was important to add
> >> to
> >> > the
> >> > > > > > > > discussion.
> >> > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > - tommy / devgeeks
> >> > > > > > > > > > > On 18 Oct 2013 04:44, "Anis KADRI" <
> >> anis.kadri@gmail.com
> >> > > > > <mailto:
> >> > > > > > > > > > anis.kadri@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> Sweet. So I think we all agree (expect Joe
> perhaps?)
> >> > that
> >> > > > both
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> approaches should be supported :-)
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 10:31 AM, Carlos Santana <
> >> > > > > > > > > csantana23@gmail.com
> >> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:csantana23@gmail.com>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>> I meant in addition of ".cordova/lib" also allow
> >> also
> >> > to
> >> > > do
> >> > > > > > > > something
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> like
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>> "cordova platform add ios
> >> > > > > > > --path="./cordova_components/cordova-ios"
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>> On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 1:28 PM, Carlos Santana <
> >> > > > > > > > > csantana23@gmail.com
> >> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:csantana23@gmail.com>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>> ++1  "to install from a given directory instead
> of
> >> > > > > > > .cordova/libs."
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>> On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Viras <
> >> > > > > > > > > viras@users.sourceforge.net
> >> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:viras@users.sourceforge.net>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> This might be true - it took me quite some time
> to
> >> > > figure
> >> > > > > out
> >> > > > > > > how
> >> > > > > > > > > the
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> CLI
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> actually works - despite also having to fix one
> or
> >> > two
> >> > > > bugs
> >> > > > > > for
> >> > > > > > > > the
> >> > > > > > > > > > WPX
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> implementation of the CLI code (as well as the
> >> > Windows
> >> > > 8
> >> > > > > CLI
> >> > > > > > > > code).
> >> > > > > > > > > > But
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> still I would hate to see the CLI go, since I
> >> think
> >> > > once
> >> > > > > you
> >> > > > > > > are
> >> > > > > > > > > used
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> to
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> it, it saves you quite a lot of time (I still
> have
> >> > > those
> >> > > > > old
> >> > > > > > > > > > documents
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> which guide me through the setup of the IDE
> >> projects
> >> > > for
> >> > > > > the
> >> > > > > > > > > > different
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> platforms - which is now mostly obsolete).
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> So I guess supporting both methods is the way to
> >> > go...
> >> > > :)
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> Best,
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> Wolfgang
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> Am 2013-10-17 16:13, schrieb Michal Mocny:
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> Thanks so much for chiming in, I'm very happy to
> >> see
> >> > > that
> >> > > > > > > you've
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> figured
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> out how to leverage the benefits and avoid the
> >> > > drawbacks
> >> > > > > of
> >> > > > > > > the
> >> > > > > > > > > new
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> workflow, and that it has led to increased
> >> > > productivity
> >> > > > > for
> >> > > > > > > you.
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> I do think that perhaps it is still too
> difficult
> >> > for
> >> > > > > every
> >> > > > > > > > > > developer
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> to
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> learn what you already have.
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> -Michal
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 12:13 AM, Viras <
> >> > > > > > > > > > viras@users.sourceforge.net<mailto:
> >> > > viras@users.sourceforge.net
> >> > > > >>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> my view on this discussion:
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> I've used the CLI to release the latest
> version
> >> of
> >> > > GOFG
> >> > > > > > > Sports
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> Computer
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> for Windows Phone. The support for the
> "merges"
> >> > > > directory
> >> > > > > > is
> >> > > > > > > a
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> fantastic
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> feature which allows me to focus on the
> >> javascript
> >> > > code
> >> > > > > > using
> >> > > > > > > > > e.g.
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> the
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> NetBeans IDE - I can finally handle all my
> >> platform
> >> > > > > > specific
> >> > > > > > > > code
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> from
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> JavaScript in one consistent directory
> >> structure -
> >> > > > which
> >> > > > > is
> >> > > > > > > > what
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> Cordova
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> should be about.
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> In addition the CLI forces you to write clean
> >> code
> >> > > (not
> >> > > > > > > > implying
> >> > > > > > > > > > that
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> the
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> other method forces to write messy code). If
> you
> >> > need
> >> > > > > > > something
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> native
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> write a clean plugin for it (which also makes
> >> the
> >> > > code
> >> > > > > > > > reusable)
> >> > > > > > > > > -
> >> > > > > > > > > > no
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> need
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> to mess around in the native projects code -
> >> this
> >> > > also
> >> > > > > > makes
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> upgrading
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> cordova much easier.
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> Once I've done the Windows Phone version I've
> >> > simply
> >> > > > > added
> >> > > > > > > > > Android
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> as a
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> platform, build it and I was done - no need
> for
> >> > > > fiddling
> >> > > > > > > around
> >> > > > > > > > > > with
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> SDK /
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> IDE setup etc (besides actually installing
> it).
> >> So
> >> > > CLI
> >> > > > is
> >> > > > > > my
> >> > > > > > > > > > favorite
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> way
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> to develop now - and it is far more powerful
> >> than
> >> > the
> >> > > > old
> >> > > > > > > > > approach
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> (in
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> my
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> opinion) - since it saves you from fiddling
> >> around
> >> > > with
> >> > > > > > > project
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> settings,
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> etc. when you do a multi-platform release.
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> Oh yes - and GOFG SC uses two custom plugins,
> 5
> >> > > > official
> >> > > > > > > > plugins
> >> > > > > > > > > > and
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> cordova 3.0 - so it is a bit beyond the "Hello
> >> > World"
> >> > > > > > > > > > application....
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> And I do not agree that it isn't possible to
> >> work
> >> > > with
> >> > > > > the
> >> > > > > > > > native
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> IDEs
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> with their own projects - this is simply wrong
> >> > since
> >> > > > you
> >> > > > > > can
> >> > > > > > > > > always
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> go
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> to
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> the "platforms" directory and open the
> >> > > > platform-projects
> >> > > > > > > using
> >> > > > > > > > > > their
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> native
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> IDE from there (I've done this myself for e.g.
> >> > plugin
> >> > > > > > > > > development).
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> Still I agree that both versions should be
> >> > supported
> >> > > -
> >> > > > > but
> >> > > > > > > > don't
> >> > > > > > > > > > make
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> the
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> assumption that the CLI is for "n00bs" only!
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> Best,
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> Wolfgang
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> Am 2013-10-16 23:11, schrieb Joe Bowser:
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 1:37 PM, Michal Mocny
> <
> >> > > > > > > > > mmocny@chromium.org
> >> > > > > > > > > > <mailto:mmocny@chromium.org>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> Anis: Totally agrees, but its important to
> >> > highlight
> >> > > > > that
> >> > > > > > > both
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> directions
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> for that arguments hold.  We've done our
> best
> >> to
> >> > > > > support
> >> > > > > > > bin/
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> scripts
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> post
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> 3.0, yet blanket statements like "CLI should
> >> not
> >> > be
> >> > > > > used
> >> > > > > > > with
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> IDE", or
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> "CLI
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> sucks unless you just doing something
> trivial"
> >> > are
> >> > > > > being
> >> > > > > > > > thrown
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> around,
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> which are harmful in my opinion, and I don't
> >> > think
> >> > > > its
> >> > > > > > fair
> >> > > > > > > > > that
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> some
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> of
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> us
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> are promoting that message to users.
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> I don't think we're communicating with our
> >> users
> >> > at
> >> > > > > all,
> >> > > > > > > so I
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> don't
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> see how this could be communicated.  When
> users
> >> > > > > > communicate
> >> > > > > > > > > their
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> frustrations, it's usually something like
> this
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> (
> >> > > > > > http://www.infil00p.org/****config-xml-changes-for-ios-**<
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>
> >> http://www.infil00p.org/**config-xml-changes-for-ios-**
> >> > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> and-android/#comment-10731<htt**p://
> >> > > > > > > > www.infil00p.org/config-**<
> >> > > > > > > > > > http://www.infil00p.org/config-**>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> >> xml-changes-for-ios-and-**android/#comment-10731<
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> http://www.infil00p.org/config-xml-changes-for-ios-and-android/#comment-10731
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> )
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> and this
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> (
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> http://www.infil00p.org/****introducing-cordova-3-0-0-for-****
> >> > > > > > > > > <
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>
> >> > > http://www.infil00p.org/**introducing-cordova-3-0-0-for-**>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> android/#comment-10694<http://**
> >> > > > > > > > www.infil00p.org/introducing-**
> >> > > > > > > > > <
> >> > > > > > > > > > http://www.infil00p.org/introducing-**>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> cordova-3-0-0-for-android/#**comment-10694<
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> http://www.infil00p.org/introducing-cordova-3-0-0-for-android/#comment-10694
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> ).
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> CLI works well for me, and while its not
> >> perfect,
> >> > I
> >> > > > > strive
> >> > > > > > > to
> >> > > > > > > > > > learn
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> its
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> limitations and make it better, not condemn
> >> it.
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> I avoid it because it's not developed for me,
> >> or
> >> > > > > > developers
> >> > > > > > > > like
> >> > > > > > > > > > me
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> who like to see a big pile of output when
> >> things
> >> > > fail.
> >> > > > >  I
> >> > > > > > > > > avoided
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> having any part in its development because I
> >> > thought
> >> > > > it
> >> > > > > > was
> >> > > > > > > > the
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> wrong
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> way to do things.  I assumed that the
> majority
> >> of
> >> > > > users
> >> > > > > > > > actually
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> wanted this and that I should do my best to
> >> work
> >> > > > around
> >> > > > > > > this,
> >> > > > > > > > > but
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> with
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> the backlash that we're getting, such as the
> >> blog
> >> > > > posts
> >> > > > > > and
> >> > > > > > > > some
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> comments on the Google Groups, it seems that
> >> this
> >> > > is a
> >> > > > > > > feature
> >> > > > > > > > > > very
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> few people actually wanted.
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> As far as the CordovaWebView use case, I
> >> actually
> >> > > have
> >> > > > > > never
> >> > > > > > > > > tried
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> that.
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Has anyone bothered to make sure it works
> well
> >> > > > > post-3.0,
> >> > > > > > or
> >> > > > > > > > > does
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> Joe
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> have
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> a point that we missed addressing this?
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> We have JUnit unit tests in the Android
> >> repository
> >> > > to
> >> > > > > make
> >> > > > > > > > sure
> >> > > > > > > > > > that
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> this still works.  However, I would like to
> see
> >> > this
> >> > > > > test
> >> > > > > > > case
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> revisited since it may be more appropriate to
> >> have
> >> > > > > > > > > CordovaActivity
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> be
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> inherited instead of CordovaInterface, or for
> >> both
> >> > > to
> >> > > > be
> >> > > > > > > > > > supported.
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> This is so that we can make more hybrid
> >> > applications
> >> > > > and
> >> > > > > > > deal
> >> > > > > > > > > with
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> the
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> fact that we're so brutally non-complaint
> with
> >> > > Android
> >> > > > > UI
> >> > > > > > > > > > guidelines
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> instead of just ignoring it.  I'll probably
> >> bring
> >> > > this
> >> > > > > up
> >> > > > > > > and
> >> > > > > > > > > > >> present
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> more source code when it's ready to explain
> >> why we
> >> > > > need
> >> > > > > > this
> >> > > > > > > > > > feature
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> in the next couple of weeks, and why it's
> >> > important
> >> > > to
> >> > > > > > > respect
> >> > > > > > > > > the
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> platform, even when the platform doesn't
> >> respect
> >> > the
> >> > > > > web.
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> --
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> GOFG - Get On Fat Guy
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> http://www.gofg.at/ - powered by Cordova
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> --
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> GOFG - Get On Fat Guy
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> http://www.gofg.at/ - powered by Cordova
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>> --
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>> Carlos Santana
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>> <csantana23@gmail.com<mailto:
> csantana23@gmail.com
> >> >>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>> --
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>> Carlos Santana
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>> <csantana23@gmail.com<mailto:csantana23@gmail.com
> >>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
>

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