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From Michael Sierra <msie...@adobe.com>
Subject RE: config.xml discussion, we need to talk
Date Mon, 21 Oct 2013 15:46:35 GMT
I've been meaning to catch up with this thread, and haven't had time to do it justice.  My
high-level takeaway so far is: doc must better clarify relative benefits of CLI vs.  platform-level
tooling.  I've been revamping doc to try to address both workflows, so any lapses on that
front are surely mine. There does not yet appear be be a full consensus here, but once there
is I'd appreciate if we distill the main points here into an actionable JIRA & assign
it to me.  I believe the Overview page would need more detail with which developers can make
crucial decisions up front, but that changes may affect other sections in less obvious ways.

--Mike Sierra


________________________________________
From: Joe Bowser [bowserj@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2013 11:40 AM
To: dev
Subject: Re: config.xml discussion, we need to talk

+1 for "More Magic/Less Magic"
On Oct 21, 2013 8:34 AM, "Braden Shepherdson" <braden@chromium.org> wrote:

> "Less Magic" (bin/create, Plugman) and "More Magic" (CLI).[1]
>
> Mike Billau's suggestions look decent to me. How about "classic" instead of
> "legacy"? Removes the "it sucks and will die someday" connotation, since
> that's not true.
>
> Braden
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 11:25 AM, Mike Billau <mike.billau@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Lets make the name as confusing as possible, to live up to our history
> > (callback, phonegap, cordova.) ;)
> >
> > Personally I think that the names should try to describe the difference
> > between the workflows instead of trying to prescribe some type of usage,
> > since there are unknown and developing use cases.
> >
> > To me the main difference between the workflows is that with the CLI,
> > things get merged for you automatically, so I'm in favor of something
> like
> > "CLI/Merges Workflow" and "Non-CLI/Legacy Workflow", and in the very
> first
> > sentence of "Non-CLI/Legacy" we say "It's called "Legacy" because it was
> > the pre-3.0 worfklow, not because it is no longer supported."
> >
> > Michal, we created an item to track the doc changes:
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CB-5122  I think the bulk of the
> > workflow discussion can fit into the "Development Paths" section in the
> > main Overview Guide. I'll get started but will continue to monitor this
> > thread.
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 10:01 AM, Michal Mocny <mmocny@chromium.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > (Okay, this thread at high risk of bikeshedding, just going to mention
> > that
> > > ;)  But I do think it would be great to settle once and for all.
> > >
> > > I like the distinction Steven/Brian are making: Project flow vs
> Platform
> > > flow.  I'm not sure that those names are immediately 100% clear (I'll
> > > ponder over it) but I like the focus points.
> > >
> > > I think Ian nails the description:  "CLI encourages the "Your cordova
> web
> > > view *IS* your application" mindset"
> > >
> > > I don't have a big preference one way or the other regarding attaching
> > the
> > > word "legacy" to the Platform Flow.  I like that it conveys: "the flow
> > you
> > > are used to" and "there exists a new flow now that you should evaluate"
> > but
> > > I don't like that it may also convey "this flow is going to be
> > deprecated"
> > > which I don't think is true.
> > >
> > > Whatever we call it, I think its important to signal that Platform
> > workflow
> > > is for supporting "mucking with platform internals" not for "single
> > > platform dev".  Single platform dev can be done using CLI just as
> easily.
> > >
> > > Should we create a wiki/doc which explains the flow and lists the
> > > pros/cons?
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 9:20 AM, Ian Clelland <iclelland@google.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Legacy, though, sounds like it's something that we're actively moving
> > > away
> > > > from; something that we support only grudgingly, and which we might
> > > > deprecate at the drop of a hat.
> > > > The platform-only workflow supports legitimate use-cases which CLI
> > > probably
> > > > will never cover -- things like embedding a cordova web view inside
> of
> > a
> > > > larger platform-native project.
> > > >
> > > > The major difference I see with CLI is that it encourages the "Your
> > > cordova
> > > > web view *IS* your application" mindset. (And if that's true, then
> why
> > > > wouldn't you aim for cross-platform development?) The pre-CLI
> workflow
> > is
> > > > still the way to build all other sorts of applications.
> > > >
> > > > Ian
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 11:30 PM, purplecabbage <
> > purplecabbage@gmail.com
> > > > >wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I like merge-flow and legacy-flow
> > > > >
> > > > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Oct 18, 2013, at 6:59 PM, Carlos Santana <
> csantana23@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cross Platform -> use Merge Flow
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Single Platform -> use Legacy Flow
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Using "Multi Platform or Cross Platform" is also fine
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Using "Flow or Mode" is also fine
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> On Friday, October 18, 2013, Brian LeRoux wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Ya, to me the difference is that one workflow embraces the
> native
> > > > > platform
> > > > > >> and tooling (plugman and bin/scripts) while the other focuses
on
> > > > > building a
> > > > > >> web project (cli/merges/etc).
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> As a dev, if I'm ONLY worried about one platform (like a
Cordova
> > > > > >> implementor or many of our community folk) then bin/scripts
> > > suffices.
> > > > As
> > > > > >> soon as I'm concerned with more than one platform the CLI
> > workflows
> > > > kick
> > > > > >> in. That was the use case anyhow.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 3:21 PM, Steven Gill <
> > > stevengill97@gmail.com>
> > > > > >> wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>> Brian suggested Project Development (CLI workflow) vs
Platform
> > > > > >> Development
> > > > > >>> (bin/scripts)
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Steven Gill <
> > > stevengill97@gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>> We need more suggestions!
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> Anis suggested picking to arbitrary names that don't
reflect
> the
> > > > > >>> workflows
> > > > > >>>> but would be easy to refer to.
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Michal Mocny <
> > > mmocny@chromium.org
> > > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>> I use the IDE with the CLI and hope to make
it better.
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> In my mind, the old way is for making platform
modifications,
> > and
> > > > the
> > > > > >>> new
> > > > > >>>>> way threads platforms/ as a build artifact.
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> If you must control the platform code, you sacrifice
easy
> > > upgrades
> > > > > and
> > > > > >>>>> ease
> > > > > >>>>> of multi-platform development, but gain control.
> > > > > >>>>> If you want to use the CLI, you lose the ability
to make
> > > > > modifications
> > > > > >>> to
> > > > > >>>>> directly platform code without worrying about
the
> implications.
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> -Michal
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Steven Gill
<
> > > > stevengill97@gmail.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>>>> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> I like that better.
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> I know that both methods use the command
line, but the
> > > cordova-cli
> > > > > >> has
> > > > > >>>>> cli
> > > > > >>>>>> in its name! We call the tool the cordova-cli
so it might be
> > > more
> > > > > >>>>> confusing
> > > > > >>>>>> going away from that and calling it anything
else. Not
> saying
> > we
> > > > > >>>>> shouldn't
> > > > > >>>>>> be open to a name change though just because
we called it X
> > > since
> > > > > >> its
> > > > > >>>>>> inception (or am I saying that? :P).
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> When we write the docs about the other workflow
(bin/create,
> > > > > >> plugman),
> > > > > >>>>>> maybe making the IDE an integral part of
it would make it
> make
> > > > more
> > > > > >>>>> sense
> > > > > >>>>>> calling that workflow IDE. Just a thought.
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 12:09 PM, Jesse
<
> > > purplecabbage@gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > > >>>>>> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>> IDE or cordova-cli ??
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>> @purplecabbage
> > > > > >>>>>>> risingj.com
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 12:02 PM, Steven
Gill <
> > > > > >>> stevengill97@gmail.com
> > > > > >>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>> I think SinplePlatform vs MultiPlatform
is misleading
> > because
> > > > > >> you
> > > > > >>>>> can
> > > > > >>>>>> use
> > > > > >>>>>>>> the CLI to do single platform development.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 11:51 AM,
Jesse <
> > > > > >> purplecabbage@gmail.com>
> > > > > >>>>>> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> SinglePlatform vs MultiPlatform
makes the most sense to
> me.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> SinglePlatform = Focus on a
single platform, and use
> > plugman
> > > > > >> and
> > > > > >>>>> the
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> platform scripts directly. Useful
when you only have that
> > > > > >>>>> particular
> > > > > >>>>>>>> device
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> to test on, or only have access
to that device's
> > marketplace.
> > > > > >>>>> Also
> > > > > >>>>>>>> useful
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> for platform developers who
are focused primarily on the
> > > > > >> native
> > > > > >>>>> code.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> ( aka DivideAndConquer )
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Carlos Santana
> > > > > > <csantana23@gmail.com>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

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